risk assessments

Stuart
I believe your comments need careful consideration. Just because an employee is not engaged in a particular activity does not negate the employers duty to bring to his attention all risks within a work place. Consider Uddin v Associated Portland Cement Ltd 1965, a breach of statutory duty was held by the court as the cause of an injury to an employee who was in an unauthorised part of the factory.
ALL risks is a workplace should be brought to the attention of all employees.

Stuart,
I can sympathise with you regarding the likely claim your employee will make. It's a shame that so many posts make criticisms when I guess you just need advice.

With regard to your situation the comments made by other respondents are true in law but their interpretation of the law is not necessarily correct. There is a duty to carry out RAs and to communicate, but only where the specific RA is relevant to the employees activities. What I mean is for example if you ran a scaffolding company then RAs for erecting scaffolding would not be relevant to an office worker not engaged in this activity so no duty to communicate this exists.
However the situation as I understand it concerns an office worker with RSI. Here you have a significant problem as the RSI may have arisen (or become more severe) from work carried out under a RA in which case either:
The RA is clearly flawed/ inadequate
The employee has not worked to the RA in which case:
Have you communicated it effectively
Have you not provided the controls you said you would
Have you not supervised effectively to make sure the controls were used
The employee had a pre existing RSI and so a RA carried out for other workers is not relevant to her

Whatever the cause it is clear that you are aware of your employees RSI exists and so the first thing you must do is carry out a RA for her specifically bearing her condition in mind, and communicate it to her. You may be at risk for the reasons above but can do nothing about that, you need to address the current situation to stop it getting worse and it may be necessary for you to offer her a different job. We have a joiner who can't use a hammer because of RSI.

We have been through this scenario not because of a failure to carry out a RA or communicate it, but because of a failure to declare a pre existing condition which we have aggravated in our assignment of tasks. Its important to do what you can, when you can and not dwell too long on what has gone before which will ultimately end in a claim and be dealt with by your insurers. Learn from it and update your RAs, particularly the ones which could end in fatality or majory injury.

PS make sure to ask all of your current employees about their health now, and any others as they start employment. If they tell you of something relevant then act on it, if they mislead you then thats down to them and its part of your defence.

Hope this helps and good luck

This post has been removed at its author's request.

Stuart,
After qualifying on the top 100 leaderboard 'most reviled postings' :-) Yes there is such malice on here at times. I think you should be highly knowledgable on why your post has been attacked by now. So would appreciate an update on where you are at today with this H&S issue, but not with the malice?

Hopefully you have a thick skin and it wont put you off asking questions. For those angry people, maybe they should 'calm down dear!' Whatever your post, if you are wrong or right, your opinion matters. Opinion is formed by learning. Some greats in theory and management, or even just peers to look up to: Maslow, Issac Asimov, Kolbe, Richard Branson, Demming. They all had their knockers!

The outcome of your scenario is equally important to your originating question, and all those replies received. Where they right, did you implement any suggestions, name your best replier that assisted you the most, how did you develop next actions, what has changed since in the workplace, is the employee (victim/accusser per say) / employer relationship repairing?

The H&S arrangements, have they changed, been tweaked, new control measures, staff involvement and so forth?

I ask as I'm a specialist, aspiring to become expert (a turn of phrase suggesting I don't hold a diploma, or enough experience to fairly call me a 'consultant'). Currently I'm assisting 'a friend' to look at safety aspects differently to their employers standardised practices. Of which generic is good. But each premises may hold some slightly differing practices, such as fire safety and evacuation guidance, specific tasks and use of equipment (ladders v steps, powered moving and lifting equipment use, etc). Generic may work well for McDonalds where all equipment in the UK potentially is 99% the same, with the same tasks. But they too cross the seas and the product and equipment is very different to a 'normal' burger chain. That's the reason I ask for your update, my personal interest in real life, and watching others grow. The reward is learning, feeling useful, watching others equal or surpass my 'position' in life/career. Always look for win/win.

Hi Emily,

Having worked with many people over many years you begin to rely on gut instinct.

Stuarts original post immediately rung alarm bells and there has been solid advice presented here to aid him in his plight. The problem is that Stuart has maintained his 'godly' persona which has now seen him on the receiving end of some short and brash comments.

Come for help and you will receive but please don't belittle us with foolhardiness.

Hi stuart

Unfortunatly pal there are always going to be those types of people that will try to claim for compansation when there's nothing wrong with them and because they see a kink in your business,
Again as a lot of people on this forum quite rightly state all employees have the right to see these docs and should have been shown them before you started the work / job. so i think you need to accept what might come your way in terms of compansation but dont forget the fact that you had your insurance go over your risk assesments and generally they are a lot smarter at getting out of small claims like this.in the end your employee has to prove your neglegent also.
in terms of going forward, inform your insurance company that you have a dispute with one of your staff and dont discuss it with them, leave that to your insurance co.
do re-assess your risk assessment and make any changes to it that will fall in line with new legislation since you did it.(7 years a long time).
Add tool box talks to your weekly work routine with attendance sheets for them to sign.
introduce PTW (permit to work systems) where everyone signs on to say they have read the (RAMS)risk assesment and method statement.(RAMS) only highlight potential dangers and help to reduce the risk of injury.
Add a tick sheet called (POWRA) Point of works risk assessment that highlights
possibly slips trips and falls
Excavations tags
working at heights
scaffold tags in date
pat tests
etc etc etc

all fairly cheep ways to cover yours from those lovely four walls and no fixed abode.

Regards
Dan

Hi Stuart

I have used this forum for quite a while now and I find people really helpful, however some of the comments that have been posted on this thread are, in my opinion, not nice and certainly not constructive. I am not agreeing with the way you have treated your staff member but I thought that help and support would enable you to work through this in a positive way and come to the right conclusion. I haven't seen that happen in some of the comments. They seem to attack you instead of pointing out a better way.

I work in a small company without the benefit of an HR or H&S department. There is just me to ensure we are compliant with H&S etc. I don't have specific H&S qualifications (I can hear the gasps from some) and I don't have the opportunity of going on numerous courses. I do however have common sense and life experience.

Small companies are a different animal to large ones. The last company I worked for had thousands of employees and had a department for everything - but then they can afford to, we can't.

I get help when I don't understand something, using either this forum, our insurance company helpline or the HSE website to name a few and I found a visit by our insurance company assessor to be really helpful. They pointed out any gaps in what I had already put in place and I ensured I filled those gaps. They are happy to put us in their top client list as being a low risk.

It is good to listen to other people's advice and we all have our own way of doing things with a common aim - we want to ensure our workplace is safe and compliant, our staff are looked after; treated with respect, consulted on appropriate things and listened to.

I hope you get this sorted Stuart with a win/win for you and your staff member.

Hi Stuart (and anyone else)

H&S in depth is its own warcraft just like HR etc. The HSE website has almost all the information you need, but to get the most out of it you first have to know what you need per se. Just as a suggestion; there are lots of H&S publications out there that are written to assist non H&S managers and employers.

The Management regs and Welfare regs are free to download from the HSE and are not too onerous to read and understand and are also a good staring point.

An employers most important and valuable assest is the workforce, this is the reason why the blue chip companies recognise that behavioural safety and culture is not a cost to the bottom line but an enhancement.

"staffing is tight, profit margin tight, budgets are tight, time is tight- businesses have to prioritise with ever diminishing resources"...

and your business is different to everyone else's how? We are all struggling!!!!

At the end of the day the law is clear, if you think she is about to make a claim for some form of compensation then your processes are wrong and need some review!

Just my £0.02p worth!

Lou

Stuart
You posted on this site presumably for help?
More than 20 professionals in many different fields have given you almost exactly the same advice - take the hint!
You are currently breaking the law and harassing your staff, the type and nature of employment is totally immaterial given the facts that you have put forward.
I am a business manager and health & safety professional not a HR manager.
It is not the people on this forum who have found fault, you have very clearly stated you own faults.
So stop feeling sorry for your self because others have pointed out the obvious and learn from their advice.
I am still not sure if you are just trying to provoke response with your thread.

Stuart, I'm quite willing to lend you my feet to put in your mouth as yours obviously aren't big enough, seems you're hell bent on proving that you really are a one tracked employer/manager on totally the wrong track. Should your employee or any other employee for that matter decide to take you to task it'll cost you a lot more in terms of time, money, potential loss of reputation as well as possible prohibitions from the HSE should your company be found deficient which by the sounds of it it will be. As I mentioned in my previous posting 'a large can of worms'.. Take my advice as a long time professional, seek help now before it's too late...

So Stuart

You remind me of Mr Bumble!

Are suggesting that profit is more important than people? Your business 'type' is irrespective because the health and safety and working laws cover ALL employment.

You have freely accessible resources in the HSE, ACAS and other mentioned bodies in this thread yet you ask us to be mindful of your situation? You are having a laff...............

Where's Jeremy Beadle?

hold on a minute everyone,

this site is also for managers and business owners not just HR professionals.

please do not make assumptions on the nature of others business type.

the type of work that my employees do is manual labour, yes demanding, repetitive etc.

staffing is tight, profit margin tight, budgets are tight, time is tight- businesses have to prioritise with ever diminishing resources.

please think carefully before trying to find fault,

stuart

Stuart,

Wow, I'm not an expert on H&S but even I'm aware of the rights and responsibilities of employers and employees under the relevant laws.

You must be trying to cause a reaction surely!?

Lou

Let us be reminded that a risk assessment is not just a piece of paper and that it is the findings of a risk assessment that are key - I've never heard of a piece of paper that is an effective control measure i.e. reduces the likelihood or severity of injury.
The findings of a risk assessment must be shared with all relevant parties, control measures implemented and the risk assessment reviewed on a regular basis (this does not simply mean changing the dates)
The law requires that a risk assessment is 'suitable and sufficient' which includes, as well as many other things, that it has to be undertaken by a competent person, considers more local information such as accidents/incidents/near-misses, takes into consideration H&S Regs and guidance and without doubt considers the most important variable that being the individual.
I along with many others urge you to seek further advice in relation to your H&S responsibilities and your first port of call ought to be www.hse.gov.uk - here you will find all the relevant information and it is a great starting point if money is an object but lets not forget the old saying in my wonderful world of 'elf 'n' safety' "If you can't afford health and safety try affording the accident/incident!"

oops - that's INDG 163

Hi Stuart, the 5th step of the HSE's 5 Steps to Risk Assessment (INDG!^£ - freely available on www.hse.gov.uk)is about review. These assessments were done 6 years ago! Has absolutely nothing changed with the job/tasks in that time? Not only should you be reviewing your risk assessments on an annual basis, but sooner if there is an incident. An incident certainly indicates some sort of failure in the controls which may not have been adequate. Are they? A clever manager would also have a record that staff have been shown the risk assessments. In the event of an HSE investigation, this would be asked for. If you had an investigated incident, and the injured party claims they had never seen a risk assessment, and you say they had - without evidence - who would the courts (Criminal & Civil) believe? In my organisation - as part of a move towards 18001 - our audits we look for evidence to see a) if staff have been involved in the risk assessment process (who better to risk assess than those who do the job?) and b) that all assessments are available to all staff. I think you need to review your H&S strategy.

Whilst these forums are a useful way of getting other HR professionals views on situations, sometimes it appears on looking at a thread poster's history that they are not involved in HR and purely look to either wind up those whose "advice" they seek, or to be able to quote a less accurate comment that has been made here, to justify poor working practises which exist due to no qualified input being used in the business.

I suggest to Mr Cruikshank that the best way to get advice on his obligations under H&S law would be to phone the local HSE and request a visit, and some assistance in making sure he is compliant with his obligations. Complying is the most economical way for a business, as well as being in the best interests of the employees and the reputation of the business. The British Safety council will also be pleased to get involved. Signing up to at least a telephone law advice network would give some support whenever an issue arises relating to any aspect of employment law. These two together would assist the business to improve with not only the issue at question here, but also those on Occupational Health, Maternity, Toilet breaks, Lay off, and all other issues which arise on a day to day basis in any business.

Stuart,
not only is your last comment an admission of 'non compliance'...you set a date to review and missed it, this is in addition to a wholly inadequate review time...you have also admitted to a threat...'dont claim otherwise their will be job losses
Share the assessment and specifically assess the staff member..do you have occupational health..if so refer the staff member AND advise her to seek medical advice, through her GP...
work this through mutually...if the result is that you identify a cause and control you will SAVE money through implementing more suitable controls AND therefore, reducing absence...if the rsi nothing to do with your activities, you havent lost anything

I'm concerned that legal actions would be warned off as it may lead to job loss. Is that not a threat? Do we not have whistle blowing policies, and a need to provide a duty of care? I don't believe in the no win / no fee culture. But in this case, I'd chance my arm, should I be suffering enough. I don't see anything positive about the handling of this by the organisation. Six years since reviewing an assessment where it is known that an employee has an RSI reported, or is it that during the six years the injury has been sustained? But there is a plus side for the employer...

Every member of staff has the duty to not omitt, or do anything that may harm themselves or others, so the emplotyee is in breach. But the counter claim is lack of training, information and regular risk assessment. It could be a no win / no win situation. I know you can only tell so much of a story in a forum, and it's open to interpretation by the reader. Easily changing the dates on a document, as the jobs have not changed, by my interpretation, bizarre! Does that count as a review?

Over the last six years we have changed from windows 95 or NT, through XP, Vista, windows 7 and windows 8 due in any day. Smart phones, PDA's and technology in the computer software we use has dramatically changed. Flat screens have given us more desk space, smaller desks, less hard copy files resulting (theoretically) in the paperless office 'myth'. The last 2 years has put on the front page for everyone lean management, stripping back to basics. New mindsets create different physical needs, technology changes the way we work. Most of us employ a champion or stand alone role as a manager or consultant on change in the workplace. Your jobs have not changed for six years is unbelievable, definetly not the 'norm' today.

Anyway, what you do to support the employee is the real issue, as it should have happenned naturally by organisational culture. The employee should have also helped themselves. So in salvage, have you enlisted a professional DSE or occupational health assessor or made controls to assist the RSI? If not, it is wise to do so. Or mediate between you, asking directly ''What do you want?'' suggest control measures and PPE, and discuss the way forward.

This may not be the cause of the RSI, but some thoughts (only some) to look at, 'if' at all useful in addressing the RSI issue: ergonomic keyboard, speak and type, mouse alternatives: stick, track ball, large mouse, touchpad, wireless mouse. Assessories: mouse mat, key rest, Posturite Bean(brilliant - carpal tunnel - citation required). Behavioural Control: Spot assessment of tasks/behaviour/complacency - use the mouse (or alternative) in the other hand (half a day results in half the strain), keyboarding techniques, regular breaks from straining activity does not mean take a break and do nothing - do something else, maybe re-arranging how work is performed physically and by timeline.

Stuart
I am not quite sure if you are writing your thread to provoke comment from the rest of us or whether you genuinely do not understand health & safety and HR law principles.
If it is the later, be prepared for some serious rebuke from the forum users.
You cannot 'have a word' with an employee threatening her with job loss if she makes a claim, this would leave you wide open for constructive dismissal and all sorts of harassment claims.
If you are truly as ignorant of the way to run a business as it would appear from your thread, I suggest you do two things very quickly.
Hire a good safety consultant and be prepared to listen to their advice!
Hire a good lawyer!
Nuf said!

Hello everyone,

To: stuart cruickshank

There is no a real punishment for not doing an risk assessment, but if you've done one, and no action were made towards minimizing them, not reassessing and so on - then my friend you are in trouble, real trouble.

thanks everyone for your replies

there is nothing shady or secretive here.

risk assessments were done six or so years ago with an employee representative that i appointed (who left some time ago).

i did write on the assessments that they would be updated in three years time- this passed unfortunately two years ago, however this shouldn't matter as the dates are easily changed, the jobs have not.

the lady concerned has some sort of rsi . i've had a word with her advising her against any claims or such like as it would inevitably lead to job loss at some stage.

sometime you have to withhold information to protect people from themselves.

regards stuart

Is there a pre-prepared risk assessment on file and/or resultant preventative / mitigative policy actually there in the first place or does the employee suspect or believe the employer may not have one or that it is not nor has not been implemented or "effective" as it appears to be a big secret.

So much for duty of care, open and transparent management where elf-an-safety has been covered by a need to know policy and/or Data Protection - Doh

Morning Stuart, you've seem to have opened a bit of a can of worms on this one & I'm surprised that you've used this forum to ask the question as you're clearly not aware of the H & S framework (Acts & Reg's). Although the Management of Health & Safety @ Work Reg's (Section 3) does not specifically say you must inform employees about the results of your risk assessments, section 10 states :-
Every employer shall provide his employees with comprehensible and relevant information on -
(a) the risks to their health and safety identified by the assessment;
(b) the preventive and protective measures
if this is not freely available how do you expect the staff to know the control measures or know what they should do to avoid harm, also how will your company be able to prove that the staff are aware of the findings?. It is, as a general rule best to empower your employees to share the process of carrying out the reviews of the R/A's with you as they are the ones that carry out the tasks on a more regular basis and may see hazards that you may not, in this respect as mentioned previously, unless there are specific topics, tasks or hazards that are irrelevant, your staff members should be allowed full access. Rather than stating that you may 'have an inkling' as to why, ask the question, it may be that she has seen a hazard where a control measure should be but currently isn't in place.