Private cars for business use

David

"Management" includes the prvision of, and efficient use of, all available relevant equipment and technology...

GPS is a valid and useful tool (I won't rant on about that one since it is a favourite subject!)

Your comment about the breakdown button is very shortsighted though. Let's think about the person who breaks down in a foriegn country... perhaps without a decent knowledge of the lingo... a breakdown button solves this issue by using an intermediary. Of course breakdown cover is essential - but it works in addition to...not in place of technology.

Hi, I have been keeping a watch on the recent posts to this thread and it does kind of depress me. Surely this is all about common sence, it does not matter how much technology or legislation you throw at the problem you still have to mannage the issue.

Staff using their own cars for work is a problem because whilst the management is responsible for the individual at work they cannot make themselves responsible for that individual's private car. Stop looking for cheap soloutions that may cost a lot. Manage the problem.

Provide the vehicles, provide proper training (please not online assessments), provide the policies, and monitor what is actually going on (not what you think is going on).

If you have lone workers is a GPS with a panic button going to stop the person being assulted or abducted. No, buit at least you will know where to pick the bits up afterwards! Why not think the problem through and eliminate it wherever possible and effectively control it where it cant be eliminated. Hitting a panic button when the car breaks down is not going to solve the problem. membersip of a good breakdown service, a mobile phone, and a grid refference from a satnav will.

Just a few of points to consider:

1. The PUWER ACOP can be a little confusing, while it states that personal equipment used for work does come under PUWER, it also states that personal vehicles do not (section 61 of ACoP). It also states that for company vehicles on the road PUWER is supersede by road traffic regulation, which is the case for all vehicles.

2. The Workplace Law 'Driving at Work Policy' template is a very good basis most for organisations to manage their company and grey fleets as it ican be amended as required.

3. Most guidance including the DfT DfBB Toolkit talks about vehicles being maintained in line with manufacturers schedules http://www.drivingforbetterbusiness.com/toolkit/policy.aspx

The key word here is evidence.

Like training, its no good the employer producing a list of course attendees as it does not show they have understood their training. You need to evidence it with test results.

The same rule of thimb should be applied to grey fleet drivers. The employer should have copies of up-to-date documentation to prove they know their staff are driving for business lawfully. Remeber if you drive on business then you should inform your insurers as the premium is higher.

Make sure your employer is aware, because you could be losing out financially.

I think their position is once you've filled in the assesment and stated you've read and are complying with their 'cover all bases/get out of jail free card' policy if it did go bent they could put their hands up and simply say they told us what not to do, we said we were aware and knew this and if we didn't comply then its our fault not theirs.
Probably get into trouble if they rely on that defence at court for a serious matter but I could be a disqualified, uninsured driver of a non MOT'd or taxed rustbucket and all the firm would know is the registration and make of car.........

Blimey Keith... that sounds like the other end of the spectrum! I would, at least , have expected the company to keep relevant evedentiary records but hey ho... maybe that's why I am not a legal type person.

The company I work for has a leasing arrangement in place for the 'senior' managers......... us underlings just have to get from a to b under our own steam.
We get one mile-age rate for the first 10k miles p.a. which then reduces and hasn't been increased for the past 4 years despite the fuel going up.
The only thing the company have asked us to provide is a self completed driving risk asesment in which it has a tick box stating we've read the companies driving policy. This policy says the usual stuff - roadworthy, business insured and properly maintained, break after 2 hours driving etc etc etc - the usual cover all bases to absolve them of everything if it go's bent.
No proof of driving licence held, adequate insurance, MOT or any details of the car (except on the mileage claim form) is required to be provided to the company to prove you are complying, you've signed your form and thats it.

Just an afterthought

One of the versions of my own tracking program allows the user (my daughter) to switch off the tracking unit so that I can not monitor the position of her vehicle. At the same time it also allows her to hit a switch that will immediately report her position back to my mobile phone with the word (PANIC followed by her name.) Brilliant if she has a breakdown on the motorway or needs help in some out of the way country lane while returning from friends and so on, without intruding on her private life.

Developed through consultation with the user...her.

@Barry and Martin

Of course, in this case I see your point and to a parge degree I agree with what you have said. However I do think that this is one of thos occasions when spending the extra few pounds to implement a solution that suits everybody is justified.

For example lets just say for the sake of argument that a developer who has a GPS system for sale sits and talks to managers and workers together.

A system can be put in place that will not report data unless it is activated... but can be activated by using a panic button worn around the neck of the worker. It would even be possible to schedule what hours the GPS reports normal tracking data.

I believe that using this kind of adaptive programming to develop solutions that suit both management and protect employees represents the future of IT. Oops I am in danger of getting on my soap box again!

please. Let's not write off such a wondrous technological advancement as GPS tracking surey is; without first exploring the possibilities that can be realised when everyone works together to get what THEY want from a system.

Hello

More practically the employer does not own the vehicle where the installation is to take place, so really cannot insist at all and what if it is not a car,installation becomes very difficult.

Barry

This post has been removed because it contravened our guidelines.

This post has been removed because it contravened our guidelines.

Chris, Lone working does not necessarily justify using GPS, and I would use that alone as the basis for introducing it.

Monitoring of lone workers can take many forms, but GPS is total invasion at all times and beyond the control of the lone worker. They should be allowed to decide on a method they find suitable and reasonable not draconian.

I have an ex-colleague who I worked with for a number of years and he introduced this system for his employees, if degenerated down to watching where they were every hour of the day. I could not condone this practice, but can see how easily it can be abused or misused.

You also have to bear in mind the Data Protection Act, these employees are entitiled to know what information is being captured about them and how it is used and stored. If they don't agree with you rationale, you can't force it on them.

Martin... a thought occurs to me having re-read your post. Many of these drivers will qualify as lone workers, driving as they are for long periods of time. Since the company has a duty of care, and should take all reasonable steps to ensure such workers' safety; is it not the case that tracking/monitoring/lone worker alarm systems would, by definition, be justified?

I am not a legal expert... but I do have some considerable experience in the deployment of GPS devices.

On the continent it is considered common for workers using either their own vehicles for work purposes, or their company cars for personal purposes, to have a gps device fitted to the vehicle. This is then tied to a simple, low cost, card reader. The employee inserts a card in the reader according to whether he/she is driving on busines or personal use. The resulting data is used to ensure that tax records and so on are kept up to date.

Using a trtacking system from a decent programmer will allow you to also limit the information being reported on personal use time - perhaps limiting to simply mileage; while offering the employee the obvious advantages of after theft recovery as an incentive.

In my experience, although much is made of employees resisting the installation of these devices, most of them are perfectly agreeable as long as their individual freedoms are not being compromised. Thrashing out the specifications of the software to be used is one sure fire way to get around this.

Karl, THe employer can ask, but not insist. It is invasive and unless they can justify any legal reasons for introducing it, they could find this problematic.

The company should have an employee monitoring policy that covers internet, mobile phones and use of GPS devices. If this is not in place then it needs to be setup first. I must point out though it must be done through consultation with employees, not just arbitrary decision making from senior management.

Just adding a question to this discussion, what is the current law relating to installing gps devices to "Grey Fleet" vehicles for the purposes of maintaining records namely servicing etc via direct api and mileage feeds. In short we have approximate 200 vehicles on our fleet, mostly company owned or hired but we have a few people with allowances. The company has withdrawn any option of allowances for the foreseeable but can a company insist on installing a GPS onto a grey fleet vehicles for the many reasons mentioned above or is the employee entitled to refuse?

He's brave trusting his triumph in an office car park. My family car was in the garage for a few days last year, and the most scary bit about using my vintage jaguar for work was the fear of car park scrapes.

Hi John. It's always good to meet the genuine enthusiasts who have a real interest in their cars and look after them properly. Sadly, you're very much in the minority. Almost very day, I come across drivers who are using cars for work that are completely unfit for purpose, whether because of the type of car or because they are not looked after properly.

It's also interesting that the number of MOT failures are increasing as the economy still struggles. It appears that more people are delaying or cost-cutting on maintenance when they have to pay for it themselves.

You're right that the HSE makes no reference to private cars. Neither do they refer to company cars - just vehicles used for work. The same criteria apply to both, therefore (at least that's what they told me).

Sorry to say you're incorrect about PUWER, though. Although the RTA takes precedence (as always) PUWER applies to any equipment used for work whether provided by the employer or not. You can see details here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg291.pdf

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for choice, but employers need to be aware that they can't deflect responsibility by simply telling employees to sort it out for themselves.

There is a requirement to ensure as far as is practicable, that the employee is allowed to drive the car on buisiness and to ensure that it's roadworthy. That means checking the employees licence,business insurance and MOT. You do not have to check service records etc. You are not responsible for the vehicle under PUWER as you do not supply it and it's not used on your premises. Using a private car for work comes under the same basic heading as working from home. The employee provides the location and equipment and carries a greater responsibility for doing so. Some minor help, perhaps providing bulk AA/RAC membership, a first aid kit and a high viz waistcoat would help and cost very little.
The HSE guidance http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg382.pdf makes very little mention of private vehicles driven on company business beyond that mentioned above.
I've been through a similar personal change and it improved my working environment considerably. As a car enthusiast, I can now choose my car and enjoy it. I know of a colleague who uses his 1968 Triumph for work. I also know of a number of classic car specialists who run older cars for both advertising and enjoyment. A 15 year old car would be far too new for them. How do you check the service record for my car when I do my own maintenance. Incidentally, I am a qualified engineer with a background in automotive engineering.
Don't over legislate on this, it will only make things difficult for everyone. If the incentives are right, many employees will welcome the change.

Good morning Martyn,
Support all the other comments and as I work in this area . Grey fleet is one of the most difficult areas for a business to manage . Having Investigated many companies in a previous life , lack of audit trail and properly recording documentary evidence is poor . One thing you also might have not considered is the PPE Regs . It is a foreseeable event that a driver might be involved in an incident on the road, such as a blow out , collision etc . Therefore under the regulations an assessment must be made in relation to PPE such as Hi vis vest warning triangle etc. the other area I have found poor is that of proper supervision and daily checking of vehicles . Can provide lots of evidence if required.
Regards
Dave

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is that these workers may be contractually entitled to a car, and to take it away may result in a claim.

Agree that the company keeping control (trackers, immobilizers, the right to enter the car at any time or let the secretary borrow to go to the bank, proper approved handsfree systems, etc) seems more valuable than saving bit of money.

Martyn, Dont forget to inform your Director that he must keep records properly controlled under the Data Protection Act... I hope he has registered with the ICO's office?

And there is more.......

Martyn if you decide to go down this road keep really accurate records of your drivers details Licence/insurance/car MOT and servicing etc. Create and keep that audit trail just in case !!
As for licence checking, if you have time do it yourself with the DVLA but you must get permission from the drivers to carry out the checks. A small suggestion would be to write it in to their contract of employment that you will be carrying out these checks.

Thanks eveyone for your comments...

It has given me enough ammunition to discuss this further with the MD with some very valid points.

Martyn