DDA and Parking

Thanks Kev, that was really helpful. Is it the latest and most up to date given it is 1995?

http://www.dft.gov.uk/adobepdf/165240/244921/244924/TAL_5-951

Hi both,

Thank you for your replies - The spaces our tenant have allocated as DDA have not been altered in anyway just a sign saying Disabled Parking.

I will relay this to our tenant and see what happens.

Daran

There is another issue with Blue Badge parking spaces, which is that they need to be near the main entrance and there should be a lowered kerb (properly marked to prevent people parking over it) to enable a wheelchair user to get to the route that leads to the main entrance - a route which has to be wide enough to accommodate wheelchair users and kept free of obstructions such as wheelie bins and bikes etc. This may sound like stating the obvious but I have seen a number of places where the so called blue badge spaces could not be used by wheelchair users. (Not all blue badge holders ARE wheelchair users of course, but nevertheless provision should be made to ensure that wheelchair users can reach the building from the blue badge spaces. ) It sounds to me as though this company has been told that it has to 'do something' to 'comply' with the DDA (which is not compliance based legislation in any case) and has not taken the proper advice.

Daran,

The British Standard 8300:2009, which provides guidance on provisions for the needs of people with disabilities suggests that for workplaces there should be one space for each employee who is a disabled motorist, plus 5% of the total capacity for visiting disabled motorists. A further 5% of the total capacity should be enlarged standard spaces.

An accessible bay should be 2.4 x 4.8m with a 1.2m wide strip to the side and rear of the space, for the safety of the user, the zone to the rear should not encroach into the roadway.

By designating ordinary bays, it is likely that these may not provide adequate space for someone to safely enter or exit their vehicle.

Under the S16 of the DDA, the lessee may apply in writing to the landlord for permission to alter the spaces to meet the space requiremnts in order to meet their obligations under the Act. The landlord cannot withold consent unreasonably but may imposereasonable conditions.

I hope this is of use,

Regards,

Nick Hibbs

Hi All,

So not to create another thread with the same heading, can anyone tell me if a tenant with an allocation of non DDA Spaces can legally convert some of these to DDA bays or is it based on individual requirements? I am sure there are minimum requirements on size, clearance etc.

The stgory is - We have a tenant who have sign posted several standard sized bays as DDA ones. They now have another DDA user but no DDA spaces although we (Building Management) do have a few DDA bays which are not allocated.

Am I right in saying that any blue badge holder has a legal right to actual DDA spaces if their allocated or not?

Thanks in advance

Daran

This post has been removed because it contravened our guidelines.

James,
At my primary site they ticket and follow up with court action if the ticket isn't paid.
At another site, I very recently took over, the tenant decided to engage a different company who clamp.

Not suprisingly my 'ticketing' company are not going to divulge how many or what % they have to take to court.
The 'clampers' contract has expired and my head office are dealing with advising them formally to cease clamping on that site.

Not my area of expertise but I wasn't aware you would need to pay business rates on an access road simply because you enforce parking on it. Especially if the landlord isn't making any money out of it but I bow to your superior knowledge in these matters.

If I ever get a chance I'll visit the suggested web sites and have a read up.
This will also be of interest to some of my colleagues who use parking enforcement regarding the rates issue if nothing else...........

Keith - you were the one who mentioned clamping,

Please note that these tickets are NOT fines. They are invoices, and unenforceable ones at that.

As I previously said, if your company are allowing this to happen, YOUR COMPANY need to pay business rates on the land (i.e. the approach road).

Ruth - please do not make the mistake of just going after Excel Parking. Use the http://www.landregisteronline.gov.uk site to find out the names of the owner and leaseholder of this land, and go there too. I recommend you post on the pepipoo forum also.

Carole,
e-mail me ruth@mdpag.org.uk and I will give you solicitor's contact details...
Ruth

Carole,
I hope the company who manages the car parking put up adequate signage and displayed it clearly for all vistors to see?

If they didn't then they are going to have a very weak case if you pursue a DDA case. It has been made clear on many occasions in the pasr with other cited cases where the full letter of the law has not been adhered to. As this is a specialist subject you need to consult with someone who knows this field inside out.

The only experience I have had is being charged by a local authority for parking on my own land. Needless to say my appeal to the local authority failed (of course it would wouldn't it?), but when I pursued it further I won my case (fortunately for them it didn't go to court).

Sometimes you need totake a leap of faith and trust your instinct. From what I have read here, there is some unscrupulous practice going on here and it nees challenging. But its not my call.

Whatever you do, good luck!

They won't ever go to court - please read Pepipoo forums about this. They cannot seek anything other than losses through the small claims court, which they would have to demonstrate. It is illegal for them to fine you.

Do not pay money to these people! If they send you threatening letters, file them and ignore. It will not go any further.

Hi Ruth,
I dont know of anyone actually but then I wouldn't be advised as I wouldn't need to know.
I'll mail and ask.......
I've instructed them not to ticket blue badge holders - we have no Landlord spaces for any parkers let alone disabled.
One of the disabled members of the Health Club, the clubs parking and disabled bays are at least 150 metres away, raised this issue threatening to 'go public' if they got a ticket. The Landlord then decided blue badge holders would be exempted.
I'll let you know when I get a reply.

Hi Ruth

Thank you for that information. I would be very interested to speak with the Solicitor.
I have the contact details of the MD of the management company who works on behalf of the landowner. He would therefore be working under the landowners instruction. A simple LR search would reveal the name in any case.

At the time this all happened to me and I was making enquiries about the company, I was told that there were a lot of problems on this road with Police being called constantly. The problem is although it is private it looks like it is part of the surrounding on street parking and this obviously means you have to question the signage if it is catching so many people out. However this does not negate the need for disabled parking in what is a busy area for offices and units and for the parking control company to respect their own SIA regulations when they see a BB properly displayed in a car legitimately parked.

Keith,
do you actually know anyone who has been taken to the small claims court by this company? At the moment I am supporting two blue badge holders who have been ticketed in a similar way when using blue badge spaces that USED to be free but overnight were changed to fee paying on the installation of cameras. They have both appealed using the company's (Excel) own procedures but lost. Now they are both being pursued by a firm claiming to be a debt collector and a solicitor (who funnily enough appear to share the same office...)
All the advice I have received suggests that they should continue to ignore the letters but I was wondering if anyone knew anyone who had actually been taken to court?

Anoop

try this hyperlink and you will have the information you require.

www.roads.dtlr.gov.uk/roadnetwork/ditm/tal/parking/05_95/index.htm).

Hi James,
They dont clamp.
They photograph the vehicle before and after ticketing to prove the vehicles wrongly parked.
If the ticket isnt paid within a certain time the fine increases, if not paid after a further time period they apply to DVLA for owner details. Once received a chain of correspondence is sent then ultimately if not paid they go to the small claims court.

Carole,
i would say you definitely have a case under the DDA - the company has treated you appallingly and should be made to pay severely. I do know of a solicitor who takes part 3 cases on something similar to a 'no win no fee' basis (one of the main problems of enforcing the DDA is getting legal assistance to do so).
Private parking companies have been allowed to get away with shameful behaviour - in all ways, but especially with regard to blue badge holders, and we have to try and work to stop it. People generally just don't understand that there is a world of difference between spaces for blue badge holders and general parking. The goons that run the parking companies exhibit this total lack of awareness.
I recommend that you try and get urgent legal advice as quickly as possible and try and put these people out of business. First thing to do - find out who actually owns the land you were parked on...

Keith,

What do you mean by 'follow up if not paid'? If you are suggesting they clamp based on parking tickets they have issued then that is strictly illegal and they should be taken to the small claims court. The tickets they issue are completely unenforceable (only council and police can issue penalties, anything else has to be of an order to cover losses associated with the 'offence' - there are no losses if there is no charge for parking). Note also that there is nothing to stop you removing the clamp yourself in a non-damaging manner if you have the tools and the gumption.

Pepipoo is your friend - there is a wealth of good advice on there.

James

Thanks James,
I'll take a look, my 'lot' are a local company called OPC - Observices Parking Consultancy.
They dont clamp but issue penalty notices which they follow up if not paid, there is no 'plot' of land as such, they control only the access roads to the Estate and its buildings. The roads all have double yellow lines with all parking spaces on site contained within access controlled car parks so no rogue parkers can get into them.
Briefly the warning boards advise you will get ticketed if you are not in a marked parking space anywhere on the Estate and there are none except inside the car parks which the public cant access.
I'll check out the link.

Keith - private parking enforcement is a minefield - can I suggest you look at the parking forums at http://www.pepipoo.com - do note that many of the companies who engage in clamping are also companies with connections to the criminal underworld.

Also note that if clampers are operating on your land (irrespective of whether you have given them permission) YOU as a business need to notify this to the local council and pay business rates on this land.

So just to be clear, on a private Estate, albeit with public access, that only has barrier controlled parking allocated to Estates buildings tenants with their leases and that only tenants and their visitors can use the 'Estates Landlord' still has to provide disabled parking even though he technically has no public parking or marked parking spaces on the estate?

In one of my other buildings recently taken over my client, an FRI tenant who ocupied one of four floors but has long since vacated, they sub let the remaining 3 floors to a single company who have basically taken over the whole car park. The barrier system is broken and there are no identifying markings on each parking bay, there are no bays marked for disabled persons and with the proximity of an Iceland and ASDA there were parking problems. Someone from the sub let tenants decided to engage a parking control company and signed a contract with them to enforce the parking. Several issues here, the tenant has no right engaging a private company to police the whole car park - if anything only their spaces and as the demarcation between the buildings parking and some of the supermarkets parking is not clear the clamping company clamp vehicles in areas outside the car park they were engaged to control.
The clampers are a mercenary lot - tell me something we dont know about clampers - and despite my advising them that a, the tenant has no right to sign a contract for the whole car park if any of it b, the areas they are clamping are not all part of the buildings car parking area and c, the contract is now expired, they are still operating in this car park.
I'm progressing this through others to sort out formally but as it stands they are continuing to operate. Problem I have is my client/Landlord wont spend anything to restore the barrier system or even mark up the bays to allow the parking to be controlled.
The fee is £125 but thats for illegally parking, it doesn't include the call out/release fee's which takes it up to the £300 mark. Whilst knowing the clamping is now 'illegal' the fact is once clamped it will not be removed without payment of the fee - argue about it later but the clamp strays on until you've paid. Getting the refund is always going to be difficult if not impossible without the real threat of legal action ie solicitors letter as opposed to 'I'll take you to court if you dont' in a personal letter from you.
Personally if I get clamped in this car park, which I wont as I now have a permit, I'll be advising that if the clamp isn't released I'll be cutting it off.
If lawfully clamped that would be criminal damage but under these circumstances I, and anyone else for that matter, would be perfectly within their rights to do so............

Thanks Martin - using your words I will be reminding this Management Company of their duty of care.
This matter is a result of my parking in this private road in a legitimate designated bay for one of the offices that I was visiting. I was clamped and towed within 10 minutes despite displaying a Blue Badge. The company I was visiting called the clamping company and asked them to return my car because I a) I was legally parked and b) I was disabled and displaying my badge (it was the thursday night before Easter Friday) but they refused even though they were just down the road.

I was left for two hours having to find my way to a coffee shop to wait for a relative to drive two hours in pre-bank holiday traffic to pick me up. We then had to bargain with the clamping company to get the car the next day as they were going to keep the car until the Tuesday after the holiday before releasing my car, despite the fact that it had urgent medical equipment in it and house keys.

When I picked up the car it cost me £330 to get it released and I showed the staff my BB still sitting in the car. I was told to write in and use their appeal process which I did but despite two follow up letters and two direct emails to the head of the management company I got no response what so ever. Apart from taking them to court for trespass I have no other alternative to get the extortionate fee back even though they have broken SIA regulations by removing a disabled car.

Perhaps tackling this from another angle i.e. threatening them with action under the DDA for not supplying disabled parking (duty of care) may help to focus their minds on returning my fee. What do you think?

Carole, I think you will find any private landlord who controls properties used for commercial enterprise has a legal obligation. There is too much of a fiaxtion with them being a 'PRIVATE LANDLORD'. This is a red herring and failure to comply can result in anyone with a disability taking them to court and or the organisation who has the allocated space.

It is about, Q: who is the controlling mind in this case? A: The private landlord.

Simple, if they are dictating what can an cannot be done, then they are the ones responsible, they do need to be reminded of their duty under the law.

James is absolutely spot on with his comments.

Thanks Guys for the info.
Keith - Had a look at the above and it does not cover private landlords. This information is for local authorities - car parks and on and off street parking.

James - I agree with you 100% however as far as I can see there is no obligation or legislation that forces a private landlord to install disabled parking bays in a private street when he is leasing out those spaces for money! His argument will be it is up to the company who is leasing the office or unit space if they need the parking spaces. But as a member of the public, if you turn up on that private road, disabled, needing to visit one or more of those offices or units, what are you to do?

Using your argument above i could argue that if I or somebody wanted to visit some big company head office or other building in London and they had a duty of care to provide parking for me or them because we were disabled. We all know that aint going to happen!!

If there has been any case law covering this point where somebody has successfully won I would be very interested to hear about it.