Fire Safety Training

David,

I could not agree more with your organisation's approach.

The fact is that you have "trained" and "informed" your employees in "what to do" in the event of a fire. When I mention "awareness", I meant exactly that and not that everybody needed to be trained as a fire fighter.

Not knowing your building it is difficult to judge whether the following scenarion may ever occur: A fire prevents certain employees to exit the building through fire exits etc. but they find themselves in an area where fire fighting equipment is available. There chances of survival would surely increase with even the basics of using FFE?

Please read constructively as meant this way!

Patrick J.

This post has been removed because it contravened our guidelines.

We have taken a slightly different stance to this aspect of safety training. We, at our London offices, advise staff that on discovering a fire their foremost responsibility is to activate the nearest BGU to set off the fire alarm system to alert all staff. We do not advocate that staff try to tackle any fires and identify their duty as ensuring their safety and the safety of others and would rather they evacuate the building than tackle a fire. As we work in an office environment we are inherently a low risk environment so can take this approach as we do not deem our staff to be fire fighters and leave this duty to the professionals.

As we are in new premises we are lucky to have the latest fire detection systems and are fully covered by an automatic sprinkler system so the need for staff to fight a fire is not necessary as the company can replace property, for which we are insured, but can not repair physical injury. We do take our responsibilities under H&S very seriously and have discussed this approach with our local fire officer and he has given his approval to this approach as he agrees that the prevention of injury/death is paramount.

This post has been removed because it contravened our guidelines.

Not wishing to use this forum for commercial purposes, I would like to raise members awareness of the existence of some excellent CD-Rom based training tools at less than £100. This can seriously influence the decision of whether to train or not to train and as far as I am concerned, EVERYBODY needs training in "awareness"! As an approved H&S trainer/facilitator to the Freight Transport Association and a BIFM South committee member, I am happy to assist in this area if anybody wishes to contact me outside this forum on patrick@e4ex.co.uk

This post has been removed because it contravened our guidelines.

With reference to the information from Jon Gallacher regarding a recent court case. Jon (or anyone) please do you have any further details regarding this, or where I could find more information regarding this particular case?

This post has been removed because it contravened our guidelines.

Reply to John Horsfield.

Workplace Law Training offers a wide range of internal training including Fire Safety which can be arranged for your staff.

We can tailor-make the training course to suit your needs, and it is carried out by our professional trainers at very competitive rates.

If you would like more information or a quote please contact me on my direct dial: 01223 702097 and I will be more than happy to help.

Sarah Davies

For John Horsfield

John, try Wormald Fire of Bowthorpe, Norwich on 01603 731300. They will be able to help with suitable courses. We have used Wormald for some years.

It is a very good idea to amend any Fire Instruction training/documents from "tackle the fire only if safe to do so" to "tackle the fire only if safe and trained to do so".

A recent court case was won by an ex-employee who sued their ex-employer because the "tackle the fire if safe to do so" suggested tackling the fire, regardless if you have been trained or not. The employee in question tackled the fire and was injured due to lack of knowledge regarding Fire Extinguishers. He hadnt recieved proper extinguisher training as he had only been with the firm for 6 days.

I am headmaster of a large comprehensive school in Norfolk. I want to train staff in science, technology and information technology to be able to use extiguishers and fire blankets safely.

Does anyone have views on this?

Fire Extinguisher Training

To train or not to train.

Fire extinguishers - Hose Reels etc are placed in buildings to allow staff to tackle a small fire in the early stages. Should you tackle the fire? That requires a knowledge of what people are prepared to do.

It is read in many newspapers and TV where the joe/mary public will have a go where life is at risk and may make an entry into a building and attempt a rescue - many are fought back by the "thick black acrid smoke and intense heat". That should inform you that to takle a fire you should understand the products of combustion, in lay terms, and when you should have a go.

I was the Commandant of the International Fire Training Centre in Glasgow for a number of years and the number of Industrial persons passing through on fire courses was on the increase as the years passed. At these courses it was important to impart to all the students that they were not firefighters and that fires should only be tackled if it is safe to do so.

So what is safe?

If a fire is discovered in the early stage of its growth (within seconds) then it can be managed with little or no fear of harm to the employee. What must be understood is that within seconds a fire can extend from simple smoke to a major conflagration, depending on the material and the ambient conditions.

No fire is safe, as the combustion process gives of the following gases: Carbon Monoxide and Dioxide - Hydrogen Cyonide (all Plastics etc) Phosgene etc, so the likelihood of you trying to tackle a fire with these gasses being produced is death in the making. With this knowledge you can make the distiction between "having a go" and assessing the reasons behind tackling the fire or confining it and leaving it to the people who are the professionals in this field.

What about the LAW on training staff in Fire Extinguishing Media:

If someone discovers a fire and they know that a fire extinguisher is avaialable, then they may be tempted to extinguish the fire. If you decide not to train your staff in this vital safety aspect, then you could, if they get injured, bring a claim against you. You have a duty of care to make sure you insruct and provide information to your employees.

It is vitally important that the person who gives the instruction to the staff is a competent person and has knowledge of fire and fire safety and knows the pitfalls; I can assure you, your staff will derive a great deal of benefit form the Fire Safety/Extingusher Training.

GOOD AND MEANINGFUL TRAINING CAN SAVE LIVES AND GIVE VITAL TIME TO ALOW STAF ETC, TO EVACUATE THE BUILDING.

The Fire Precautions act 1971 as ammended - Fire Precautons (Workplace) regulations 1997 as amended 1999 & 2003 gives details of what should be covered in staff training.

LEARN NOT TO BURN.

John Clenaghan QFSM. PKPB. RISC Corporation Ltd.

This post has been removed because it contravened our guidelines.

On a similar note, can anyone tell me what the ACoP would be for fire training for all staff?

I've used a training company in the past for generalist training as well as for fire marshals, but I need to convince my new employer that it's necessary, or at the very least good practice.

Anyone got the right phraseology I can use please?

We are a large manufacturing company and at present have around 500 staff. We do both pratical & classroom work on fire safety and in the use of fire extingushers. We have had several small incidents and all were dealt with using extingushers of all types by members of our staff. As part of your risk assesement it is stated that staff should be trained in the use of fire extingushers but only on a voluntary basis. Staff find it interesting and it gives them some self satisfaction in the work area. We move on from fire training to develop fire marshals in all our work areas, these people are trained not to put themselves in any danger, but to act in a calm and proffesional manner when we have a fire alarm activation. This is also part of the overall risk assesement.

With over 700 office employees in a single building, our organisation in West Africa takes safety very seriously. In the case of dealing with fire, all staff are trained in the use of fire extinguishers. The training is practical, in that everyone's had a go at using one. Equally important we find is training staff to use the correct type of fire extinguisher for the type of fire being tackled.

Workplace Law Training is pleased to offer an increased number of in-house training courses, at competitive rates, together with an excellent team of trainers who excel at particular disciplines - including fire extinguisher training.

In-house training can be arranged on your premises, or we can organise alternative arrangements. You can contact any us on 0870 777 8881 for further assistance. Courses that we offer include Fire Safety, Manual Handling, Accident Reporting and Investigation, First Aid at Work, plus many more....

This post has been removed because it contravened our guidelines.

I manage of buildings adn I use an approved Fire Training Officer to conduct a training session in the use of Fire Extinguishers for my employees. The course is approved by the local Fire Authority.

Should employees be trained in the use of fire extinguishers, and should that training be practical or theoretical only?

Is there any case law?