Sickness return to work

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Can I just say how much I have enjoyed reading these posts, hugely entertaining, especially the Legal & Medical ego clashes in 2009, fantastic stuff.

Just reinforces my experience that the world of SHE Management and working with people is never black and white but infinite shades of grey.

Thanks Carole, still recovering via physio and stii being supported. Thanks for the nice response

Exactly my point Kev. A Good sensible GP and Employer. I dare say that had you been in a position where you could have done some work from home then this could possibly have been accommodated. It is these sort of common sense approaches that need to be used to stop mole hills from becoming mountains.

Hope you have recovered well now.

I was recentley signed off from work having torn my calf muscle. Although the device used to support my leg allowed me to walk/ weight bearing, the fact that I had to climb 4 flights of stairs to get to my office and to gog up and down these stairs to access the gents toilets meant that doctor felt it would be better for me to be sighned off.
I was off a total of 12 weeks and at the end of it no fit for work certificate was issued. The doctor said that it was not required. I am still under physio supervision weekly and my bossess seem happy with this ans support my recovery.
My point is..... if you have good employers who support you through your comdition and recovery, it helps with the recovery without stress, red tape getting in the way.

Am I not right in thinking that arthritis is a progressive condition which tends to worsen over time ? If so would it not be wise to have regular OH visits to ascertain the level of the condition and the impact that may or may not have on the person's ability to both return to work on this occasion and be able to stay at work going forward ? I would have thought a sensible compromise might be to have the OH visit at home if possible rather than dragging them into the office when they are obviously in considerable pain.
I don't think Tony has made unfair or sweeping assumptions. As an employer he will of course have an employer bias but he's commenting on possible scenarios not stating facts. Surely we need both employer and employee views if this forum is to be balanced ?
He hasn't suggested that GPs give less then excellent care - he's quite rightly noted that if you spend time in a doctor's waiting room you may well be sitting next to someone with a contagious condition that you woud not otherwise have been exposed to.
None of us know the individual involved and they 'may' be justifiably absent and doing all they can to get themselves back to work, or they'may' have a condition that allows them to take time off unchallenged and be exploiting the system. Or somewhere between the two !
Either way all that matters is that legislation is applied fairly to protect both the individual and the organisation.

Speaking on experience from both an H&S and HR point of view, if they are signed off work, they should NOT return to work until the GP's sick note expires - they've been signed off for a reason and thus having the employees agreement does not supercede the knowledge (whatever our personal opinions, legally the GP is considered to have the knowledge) and decision of the GP.

Also, your insurers may not be too happy if someone comes back into work simply because they and/or you feel they are "better", if this date is before expiry of the GP note, especially if they then go on to have an accident. Think carefully about it - the date is put on the note for a reason!

Regards to "light duties" - this should really be a discussion between your H&S Officer (or whoever controls H&S), your HR Manager or representative and the department manager along with the returning person. This then allows you to see what their role should be, what they can manage (and for how many hours a day) and you can build a plan to assist them back to work - you may wish to include a risk assessment, but you should at least look at the risk assessments in place for their existing job role. Remember, you have mental health issues to deal with as well as physical (i.e. if someone breaks a leg, rushing them back too quickly could cause stress, which then creates a different problem to deal with).

You are generalising Tony and tarring everyone with the same brush and then putting them all in the same box.

You have NO idea what this individual person's reasons and circumstances are and I emphasise the word "individual". Just because they may not want to attend a OHA appointment does NOT mean their job is not important to them. Perhaps they feel the OHA is bias and is going to bully them into something they are not comfortable doing!

What you state about attending GP's is tantamount to being slanderous and quite ignorant in the extreme. The care GP's give (including my own) is second to none and what you don't like about them is that they don't always agree with your view (surprise surprise).

We all know there are employees that play the system and work their company's attendance policies until they are rumbled. However to assume that everyone falls into that bracket as you seem to do with your pro employer views would do nothing to inspire me to attend you if I was an employee worried about my attendance and also about my job. Is it any wonder therefore that put in that position an employee would feel suspicious, scared, intimidated, anxious and stressed about having to attend an appointment especially when they are already suffering from the affects of their medical condition which a doctor has decided is bad enough that they should not be attending the work place anyway.

Believe it or not some people are genuinely ill, do worry about being away from work but know they cant help, so being pressurised by their company to attend OH so early in a sickness can do more harm than good.

Carole

I have seen many employees lose their jobs because of poor attendance. I have also enabled many to keep their jobs by helping them improve their attendance. I can only do this if they come to see me. If they can get to see their GP, then they can usually come to see me, particularly if a taxi is provided. You seem to suggest that this is somehow detrimental to their health. Attending the GP is likely to be far more detrimental to their health than coming to see me. I don't have a waiting room full of patients with communicable diseases, and there is no risk of side effects of treatment, as I do not prescribe treatment.

If they still don't want to come, this suggests that their job is not particularly important to them. I have actually seen many employees who freely admit they are in the wrong job, and are actively looking for a new one. If I told them that their belief that they were in the wrong job was 'utter rubbish' what do you thing they would say?

Tony to suggest that an employee is choosing to have a negative view of their employer and the request to attend their OH department and therefore be in the wrong job is utter rubbish.

Rob has already explained that this employee has already visited OH on a number of occasions and they didn't seem to be under any urgent need to seem them again. it was the company policy that was dictating the pace and need to get the employee in so quickly.

On that basis I will repeat what I have already said, it is up to the OH department to act in the best interests of the employee and NOT be dictated to by a policy which could be detrimental to that employees health.

As usual Tony your post has the employer bias to it which is what makes me so nervous about OH "Advisors". BTW you wouldn't be doing ESA medicals would you by any chance?

This may be a simple practical issue. It is common for OH services to have a doctor visit occasionally, perhaps once a month. It may be that the doctor will be there after two weeks and not again until after six weeks.

It is also important to recognise that sickness absence is not a good indicator of severity of disease. Some people go of sick readily because they can, and will return early if they percieve that the employer may start to take action. The employer may have noted that this employee always returns to work within a few days of an OH appointment, whether this appointment happens after a week or after three months. Asking for an early referral in these circumstances seems entirely sensible.

It is also important to look at the overall reasonableness of the request. All they are asking is for the person to attend OH, and are offering to provide a taxi. The hardship may be less than a vist to the GP, and is arguably showing a duty of care. If an employee chooses to have such a negative view of this request and their employer, perhaps they are in the wrong job.

I absolutely agree with Kevin. I fail to see what is going to be gained by stressing this person out by making them come in after such a short time away and the "demand" feels quite threatening.

If the OH department cannot be objective enough to work in the best interests of the employee (what ever that is) rather than allow themselves to have their tails wagged by company policy, then what is the point of them being there. Having somebody that is obviously a biased advocate is going to do nobody any good and certainly will not help if this ends up in another arena down the road.

Either be there and do correct assessments, get appropriate medical history's and make individual judgements based on all the correct facts or close down the OH department and send to an independent OH where company policy and politics cant play a part. At least then the employee stands a chance of not wasting their time when they are summoned to make an appearance!

Rob, my suggestion would be to say that the person is still too unwell to visit the OH department, that in any case they have all the relevant facts on file and that they will get in touch as soon as they feel well enough to come in. If they object to that suggest the OH visit them!