criminal records check forcing me out of job

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Anthony, if you had told your employer upfront, then I would start a tribunal action. You might find http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk useful for advice on preparing a tribunal case as an employee.

Discrimination is ugly in all it's forms and to be honest i have to admit to being there as an employer of instructor / mentors for young offenders and was actively looking for those with criminal records !

Before and even after Capita & CRB it was still easier to call the local Police Inteligence officer as they would be contacted by the CRB anyway and providing the individual didn't appear on list 99, sex offenders, evrything else could be seen as a qualification.

If the CRB Checks were seen as an "aid to risk assessment" as intended confirming the person was who they said they were and any details of disclosures were correct then any risk is then mitigated and/or returned to that of a standard interview process assessing compitence to do the job.

Frankly we had more problems with those who had clean CRB checks than those who had a shed load of convictions and didn't want to have to return to grey market self-employment.

The only exception were those addicted to self-abuse through alcohol or drugs and for them work was never going to be a suffiently internsive intervention to enable them to complete the transition back into making a positive net contribution to the community in which they live.

Other than that, as a rule of thumb, we would always prefer to employ those with a criminal record than without as they tended to work harder and add value, weren't afraid to tell you if there were a problem and have a keen sense of justice or fairness when dealing with management or peers.

Good luck all and fight to preserve a good job performance record regardless whether employed or otherwise and try to sustain "Positive Regard for All"

thx for replys ,
jon.. i Had notified my "employers" of my time in jail.. i was working for them before it And after it so they knew well n truly i have convictions,

very enlightening kieran but like most things nowadays -- its all about the money , my main issue is.. and still is where do i stand with a tribunal with regards to being "let go" because of my conviction and time in jail , would it be worth it making a claim for unfair dismissal and or discrimination as my employers was more worried about his "contract" with main supplier of their work than keeping me on their books as a "subby" , i say subby as thats what the company i was working for claimed i was,

james i worked 40hours a week for this company btw ... my conviction was last year 2007 so as for "spent" it definetly wasnt ...

tony.

Hi everyone

I worked as a manager for the CRB (liverpool Office) for almost 4 years and if truth be told, its a shambles. The main problem is not the police, the fact that you may have stole a bottle of milk when aged 15 but the tenure of the contract to "Data Cleanse" all applications held by Capita - a company that have manged to retain said contract despite their founder and chief executive "Stepping down" amist the cash for peerages debacle. I can assure you all that i have never had my eyes opened as much as i did during my time there.

Comments very welcome.

I have had several CRB checks and, because of a clean history, have had no problems.
Colleagues of mine with chequered pasts, and 'spent' convictions, have declared their histories (although 'spent') and received clean reports.
It appears that if you declare a history, and it involves'spent' convictions, etc. then you can pass even an Enhanced Disclosure. The moral of this seems to be confess and be absolved.

I don't know if this helps but here goes; I have recently had a CRB check on employment. The checks came back with two police cautions from twenty seven years ago when I was 18. I accept the cautions from the time they occured but wasn't too happy that someone else has access to a couple of stupid, regrettable incidents from all that long ago. I wrote to the CRB about this and they sent the details onto the police force in question. The police wrote back three weeks later and have confirmed that the cautions are now 'stepped down'. In other words, the police have vision of these cautions but they will not appear on any CRB checks unless the police feel they are relevant.

As for declaring your past - the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act details what you must declare and what is deemed as spent. This gives you the opportunity to 'live down' your offence. Iif the offence is spent then you (normally, but there are exceptions) do not have to declare them. This is, however different to CRB where your past - warts and all comes out.

Lucille, CRB checks are not carried out by the police. They are carried out by the Home Office Criminal Records Bureau. Their web address is www.crb.gov.uk; the phone number for if anything goes wrong is 0870 90 90 811.

For Lucille.
I have not checked, but am assuming the paperwork involved does not refer you to an 'Ombudsman' service in the event of problems.
If not, assuming there is nothing in your recent past (i.e. since the last completed CRB check) that could be affecting progress of your current check, you could consider approaching your MP for assistance. Often a telephone call or letter from your parliamentary representative can get things moving.

Tony,

I think in reality you probably are an employee. What proportion of your typical working week did you spend working with this company?

The fact that you have disclosed your conviction is all that is required of you. An enhanced CRB check does not exist to show that a worker was whiter than white, it exists to show convictions that the worker has tried to hide. Your company could still have gotten you CRB clearance even though you have this minor indescretion. Depending on how long ago it was, there is an argument for saying that under the Data Protection Act 1998 they should disregard it.

Re this type of dismissal, there is caselaw on this - third party dismissal essentially - a guy who worked for a shopfitting company, and Morrisons supermarkets said they didn't want this particular guy working on their premises any more. Google for Greenwood v Whiteghyll Plastics

Hi.
My names lucille.
I have had CRB checks for twenty years (enhanced) and never experienced a problem. However this years check was applied for in June and four months later, the check remains at stage 4. As a result I have been unemployed now for two months. Acrued debt and about to loose a job I was offered in which the employer could not wait. Any contact with the department has not resulted in any
satisfactory resolution. When I rang and asked for the number of the police I was treated dismissively and was not given their number. I have filled in another in case the origonal has been lost but that one has sat tat stage two for over three weeks so I am afreaid that one is going the same way. Short of sueing for lose of wages I am at a loose as to what to do. Is there anyone out there with any sensiblesuggestions?

Tony

Sorry, but I'm still finding it hard to tell whether you were employed by the sub-contractor (rather than working for yourself) as you keep referring to them as your 'employer'. The fact that they were paying your tax indicates the former. If you're not sure, there's a tool on Directgov which helps you to check: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_10027916.

I'm not sure on this point, but It's probably within the client's rights to request (sub)contractor's staff are subject to CRB checks if those staff are working around children or vulnerable adults - which you may well be if you're erecting fencing for domestic properties, schools etc. However, I'm not sure why your conviction for ABH would be relevant as (1) you say you had already disclosed this and (2) I wouldn't think that ABH was an offence that would make you unsuitable to work near children/vulnerable adults anyway.

It seems to me that your 'employer' has acted in an overly heavyhanded way (ie why did they assume they would lose the contract because of your conviction?) and - if you are an employee - you would have a claim for unfair dismissal. They would possibly claim it was a dismissal for 'some other substantial reason' (ie pressure from a third party) but, on the facts you've provided, I would think you have a good case.

If you are self-employed, equally they would be in breach of your verbal agreement (assuming that it is a valid contract) and you could sue for damages.

Matt

hi matt,
i'd have to say i was a "genuine" subby with a verbal contract with my employers - i worked for them -- they paid me ,that sort of contract- my employers did stop tax from my wages during my employment with them,
i had worked for their main suppliers of work for a number of years without problem both before i got a criminal record and just recently again with them-recently because i was living away for 6months (living away wasnt my being jailed)
my main upset is the main contractor putting pressure on my employer over this issue resulting in me losing my work because of the crb check and my employers not wanting to lose their contract with them because i was in employment with them, (i was jailed for ABH) a 1st offence.

i want to know if i have been discriminated against because of my criminal record by either my employer(who had no problem with my work nor myself working for them criminal record or not) or the main contractor bringing in these new crb check on all staff ,-sub contractors included ..
ending result being forced out of a job i worked for many years for both contractors without any problems at all ....

Tony

Tony

If you're genuinely self-employed you don't have any employment rights. You only have the right to claim unfair dismissal if you're an employee.

I use the word 'genuinely' because, if you were to lodge a claim, tribunals will look beneath the label and see whether, for all intents and purposes, you were actually an employee. However, this depends on the facts of each case and even if you were found to be an 'employee' you would still have to make a case for unfair dismissal.

However, regardless of this, presumably, as a sub-contractor, you have a contract for whatever work the main contractor is sub-contracting to you? If they've just stopped using your services midway through a job they would be in breach of this contract and you might have a claim for damages. However, it would probably depend on the terms of the agreement you have with them.

my contract was a self employed fencing erector - building sub contractor, i had been working for the fencing company for a number of years before my conviction,they knew of my "time" as soon as it happend as i know they were contacted in advance of it by myself And afterwards so they was informed,the problem lies with their main supplyer of work-- for council propertys in suffolk asking for the crb checks on All its sub contractors to be carried out-hence the reason the company i "was" working for carried them out to basicaly keep the work and long term contract -- i said "was" as i have now been "let go" because of my convictions :/ my old employer doesnt want to lose his contract,where do i stand now ? what rights do or have i got in regards to this situation ?
any advice would be helpful
thx
Tony..

Anthony,

When you started your contract, did you lie about having a conviction? It doesn't matter whether they never asked and you never said, the key thing (in my view) is whether or not you have lied to them.

How long had you worked for this company? What is the nature of your work?

Hello,
This is not an uncommon situation actually.
http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/careers/200255/236472/on-the-record/
"More than one in four people reading this article will have a criminal record. If you include people with cautions, reprimands and final warnings on their record then the numbers are even higher. The majority of these ex-offenders are not hardened villains - on the whole, they are normal citizens who have discovered that even if their only crime happened decades ago, a record of it might still be following them around. "
"One of the greatest problems is that the disclosure service is routinely abused by employers. A lot of jobs are being subjected to standard and enhanced disclosure checks for jobs where they have no right to seek that information. There is a growing tendency for employers to run a check on any job that involves even potential contact with children or vulnerable adults. The other issue is that we've got positions that may be eligible for a standard check but an enhanced level check is being carried out instead."
This final point is borne out by the CRB's own statistics - around 89% of disclosures have been done at the enhanced level. Unlike a standard disclosure where convictions, cautions, final warnings and reprimands are reported, an enhanced check also returns "soft information", which might include additional notes from local police forces including allegations that never led to a conviction.

On one level the inclusion of this information can be essential - its omission in the background check run on Ian Huntley might have been a factor in allowing him to work close to children. But on another, this soft information can have a devastating affect on the employment prospects of people, for whom the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" has been disregarded. "
http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=381
"If you are worried or concerned about what may be, or has been, revealed by your CRB check you can talk in confidence to the Nacro helpline. Nacro is a crime reduction charity that works with ex-offenders and is able to answer specific queries on good practice in relation to employment and offenders. (T: 0800 0181 259 or Email helpline@nacro.org.uk)."
https://www.disclosures.co.uk/index.php?pageid=4
"Does your Organisation Need Us ?

If you suspect that your organisation will need to carry out disclosure checks on your applicants because you offer jobs that will involve working with children or vulnerable adults, then you may need to enlist the services of the CRB."

It may be worthwhile looking at ..
http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=1855
which lists all sorts of jobs and situations where a disclosure or enhanced disclosure may be necessary. (too many to copy Im afraid)
Its also worth noting that many employers are abusing the system
http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2006/05/23/35487/thousands-of-job-applicants-subjected-to-illegal-crb.html
"“Some employers routinely misuse their access to the service by running checks on posts that are not [exempt] from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and are thus not eligible for checking,” it said.

“This confirms the helpline’s experience — that many checks are illegal and people are being refused employment or suspended and dismissed as a result of them,” the report added.

The CRB acknowledged Nacro’s criticism and warned organisations that they could be de-registered if they apply for illegal checks. "

While protection of the vulnerable is paramount obviously the conviction you refer to and the seriuosness of it will depend on wether you are let go or not.
Personally Id ring Nacro and get some confidential advice from them.

i am a self employed contractor who is in a pickle, the company i sub contract too have been asked by one of their biggest employers for criminal records checks on its staff (i) being one of them,where do i stand being a 'subby' on them 'letting me go' because of my criminal record ??,i have no contract of employment with the firm i currently work for as i'm a sub contractor. any advice in words of law ? thx