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Rights while working notice.

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James Fairchild
Member - 870 posts
13 Jun 2011 2:07PM

Have you considered age discrimination in your proposals?

2 Jun 2011 3:28PM

Victor if you impose this change then you would potentialy need to issue the employee with a new contract - depending on what his current contract says. If he chose not to do the new shift pattern then he would have resigned and could lodge a claim for constructive dismissal. That would cost the company to defend when really they could have just negotiated an agreed way of working for 3 months until he retired.

Member - 10 posts
28 May 2011 7:51AM

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Gwynfryn Skelton
Member - 5 posts
27 May 2011 7:56AM


Even though these changes must be implemented why not postpone until he has retired that way you will be seen by your employees and the union representation to be lenient and compassionate, which could be used to your advantage further down the line. Should any other issues arise.

Michelle Wild
Member - 108 posts
26 May 2011 2:10PM

The best solution is to have a really nice retirement function for this guy paid for by management and pay him his norml wages wages up to the date he would have retired. Anything less lacks respect for a long -serving employee and will not bode well with remaining staff.

Martin Riley
Member - 670 posts
26 May 2011 11:17AM

Victor, If the business can justify the reasoning for such radical change, then nothing stops them from making the changes.
However, if it not in his original contract (which is due for termination) then this will be a very large headache for your management team.

To compel (strong word) someone to change their shift pattern would be seen as an extreme act, and to do it just for one person who is due to leave, it may be construde as a vindictive act, just ot make things difficult for him. So it could well end up in a ET case.

From the sounds of things if your present union are constantly using any excuse to "have a pop" at management, there is clearly a cultural issue already going on. The management need to look at their approach to employee management carefully, as it appears they have put themselves in a very bad position already... Not a good sign at all.

Bozena Benton
Member - 84 posts
26 May 2011 11:16AM

no nest-egg just what he would have got to the end of his notice - unfortunately common sense has prevailed and there is no windfall payment via tribunals.

I am sure that the company can still implement the new rotas without the need for your retiree to change - unless of course his shift is to be stopped and he would be a lone worker. Suggest to your managers that there are many brownie points in letting him work out his existing rotas and still getting management's objectives met. Plus your retiree will be mpre productive and engaged right up to the end.

If not you could look at either putting him on gardening leave of pay him in lieu of notice if your manger says he must change shifts. Unfortunately there is no legislation that helps you win the argument that shifts cannot change if there is a genuine business need to so do

Barry Lang
Member - 416 posts
26 May 2011 10:09AM


If the chap feels he can no longer work there he might go for constructive dismissal and he might win.
It would be a nice little nest egg for retirement.


Barry L

Chris Burke-Hynes
Member - 3 posts
26 May 2011 9:41AM

Apologies to you- being pushed into implementing things isn't enjoyable sometimes is it
I think that I am right in that the organisation is free to make changes at any time. So yes they can change the work pattern even in the later stages of his working to retire period, without knowing the details it is difficult to comment but if the change is to take place so very close his retirement date you would have thought that common sense would prevail, and some other arrangement could be made for him.
Is he on an occupational pension and would this change play any part in it?
I am not suprised to see that the local Union rep is not up to standard, this is a common thread that sadly in very small numbers is appearing within the ranks of these representatives of the workforce, instead of working with both sides to a better way forward, taking a pop somehow seems more important to them wasting very valuable, in both time and monetary terms negotiation meetings. I do recognise however that they are a minority and the majority of these members of staff who give up a lot of their own spare time as well as any facilities time work hard and have the best interests of their company/business at heart.
I hope they can accomodate him somehow

victor stevenson
Member - 6 posts
26 May 2011 4:27AM

Yes Stella, there is a union but the reps tend to be more interested in having a pop at management than truly representing members sad to say. The reps are for the most part from ancillary sectors of the work force and my guy is from a professional group.The chap in question is well able to stand up for himself anyway. I was kind of hoping someone would be able to say that such a change would not be enforceable by virtue of the fact he is working his notice. To complicate matters the "consultation" such as it was took place towards the end of 2010. New shift system was due to start early 2011, for "operational reasons" it was not implemented with no notice of if or when, eventually, it would be. Now all of a sudden it is being rushed in, meanwhile my chap has given notice to retire.Hence this uncomfortable situation.

Stella Ridgway
Member - 1 post
26 May 2011 1:41AM

Do you have union recognition in the workplace? If so, you need to consult with the union and as someone in an earlier comment has said; by the time the consultation period has finished he will have retired

victor stevenson
Member - 6 posts
26 May 2011 12:56AM

My managers want to introduce a new (organisation wide) shift pattern that would begin (imminently) a couple of months before this chap is due to work his final shift. I personally would be quite happy for him to work his present rota till he finishes, the pressure is coming from above. I would like to be able to say that imposing a new system this close to retirement - and with notice to retire already given - is not only unfair but not enforceable. I was hoping that someone would tell me that to make such a radical change is unlawful and thereby end the argument. HR have been no help, I only get wooly "see how it goes" type of answers. My concern is that he will simply go sick - like some previous retirees have done over the last couple of years - for the last part of his employment.Dont really want that to happen, any thoughts anyone?....

Member - 287 posts
25 May 2011 7:15PM

I agree with the above victor.

If it is essential that these changes take place it may be to your advantage to give him paid leave until he retires.

Otherwise it seems like poor management and futile.

Michelle Wild
Member - 108 posts
25 May 2011 4:18PM

Leave him alone. Why on earth do you want to upset someone so close to retirement? A little bit of respect is called for here. Here's your hat where's the hurry seems to be going on here. I can only hope that you get treated in the same shabby manner when your time comes.

Barry Lang
Member - 416 posts
25 May 2011 12:40PM


By the time you have consulted he will have retired.

Barry L

Chris Burke-Hynes
Member - 3 posts
25 May 2011 8:11AM

12/13 weeks to go, pattern worked for several years, what did he do?
I'm sure I am not alone in this, is this so important to you that he has to change.
I can't see the logic of it, other than you being able to for some reason.
You can impose if you so wish, with consultation etc etc, but what about the rest of the workforce, (however big or small) how would this look to them and your relationship with them or does that not come into this.
"Can I compel a worker" seems harsh as after all he is retiring with so short a time left, is there no other route or plan that could be adopted even though he has indicated he would if he had to.
It does read you want to do it anyway. I have no idea of what your business is, but in his retirement (and Prior to) he is and will be in contact with customers with which he will chat and discuss all manner of things, could this cost you in the long run in other ways.

victor stevenson
Member - 6 posts
24 May 2011 5:41PM

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victor stevenson
Member - 6 posts
24 May 2011 5:26AM

Can I compel a worker to adopt a new shift pattern while working a period of notice to retire?. There is 3 months to run on a six month notice period. The current regular shift pattern of this worker has been worked for several years. He would prefer not to change with so ittle time left to work but has indicated he might accept if he were able to choose the shifts that he would have to work. Does he have any say in this matter?

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