Latest posts:
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
I'm a Londoner and Bob Crowe has no problem for me. He is a union man fighting for his members. My problem is with the employer who will not negoitiate in a civilised grown up manner.
As with many employers the only way you can get them to listen is to work to rule or strike.
Remember none of us really now what is going on rather like other peoples marriages you see a different picture to the people involved.
I still feel held to ransom by the Shell drivers though as they have made life very difficult for everyone in all aspects of life. Disabled without transport and Nurses etc unable to get to work without difficulty etcetc.
Perhaps we should all be wondering about the power these companies have over our lives if they stopped supplying our country would fall to pieces.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
Colin
This site as I understand it is for Managers and despite what some think most managers are employees and oh dear some are actually union reps.
Taking this in to account all should realise that a good manager should take into account their staff point of view, the legal duty and try to balance the interest of the employer and employees to maintain a productive motivated workforce.
In this case the manager is I presume trying to stop a major issue with some staff blowing out of all proportion. Surprisingly I find that major issues such as pay are not what causes the most trouble but things such as parking and building facilities.
Please also think of staff with disabilities that maybe need to take a quite break in the day where do they go - often the rest room.
I feel that some managers just use this site as a how can legally bully my staff site. I do not believe that this is the intention of the owners.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
I can understand both sides of this argument though I do feel that the practice of holding meetings in this combined room must be stopped.
As space becomes a precious commodity rest rooms as such will disappear as long as you have somewhere to go that is all that is important and in many workplaces this has gone as well.
Have your employer actually stated they will get rid of the comfy chairs or could you negoiate a split room with some comfy chairs and some table and chairs. Dependent on how many staff there are this couild be possible.
Basically as long as they provide suitable and sufficient space and equipment can you really complain
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
I have to agree that Chemical Tanker drivers have a difficult job they are unable like most HGV who are not ADR trained to leave their vehicles unattended or work longer hours to get overtime. They are also putting their lives on the line every time they drive.
However the Shell drivers are taking the mickey £40,000 per year and they want more. I know of many ADR drivers who earn a much more reasonable erssalary £25,000 these are the guys who deserve more not the Shell drivers. Do these people really think they should earn more than firefighters. Or as previous contributor stated our brave soldiers who are dying at an alarming rate or their families living in slums .
They are holding us all to ransom as unleaded is not available in my area thank goodness I drive a diesel as a disabled person I would be lost without my car.
There are 1,000's people out there who would do anything for that job with such a good salary quite a few with ADR as well so watch out guy's or you may find you are out of work or worse still your job is contracted out.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
I'm sorry but I cannot understand this case as stated right at the beginning this is a definate discrimination case both under DDA and posssibly racially. Where is this union at present. Try contacting the President of the union or whatever they are called in unite and see if you can get anywhere.
If all you are saying is correct why are the members paying their subs.
Did you go to ACAS and any of the other organisations mentioned.
Demand another Occupational Health visit and discuss this with them.
I will see if I can get anuy info from other reps for you
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
I suggest you pay a good lawyer before you contemplate this. If DWP think you are abusing the law they will take action as basically you are saying why should I pay let the government do it.
Also depending on the illness you could find DDA action taken against you.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
My understanding is that an employee must be signed off as fit for work and that the procedure you are using is actually coercing an employee to commit fraud if they are still claiming incapacity benefit. If the GP is signing them of sick then they are sick and not fit for work in any capacity.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
I am sorry to hear that you have been got rid of well compensated I hope.
What do you mean if I take them to ET? Surely you must and use all reasons DDA and Harrassment of a Union Rep/H & S Rep. I assume you have submitted ET 1 and contacted the union solicitors.
Even if they have filled the job with another person you can ask for info regarding why you did not get chosen. Have you put in a request under DPA for all records held on you by both company and their OH provider?
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
Kevin
If this is an error on the employers part and the employee had no way of knowing this error was being made, I suggest take it as a loss.
I understand that if this employee has spent the money in good faith and cannot afford to repay it it could prove a problem. My own employer wrote of such an error.
Obviously how you deal with continuing to pay an amount also has to be looked at carefully.
I would suggest ringing ACAS for advice.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
Phil
Can I ask why it is not practical to move her to another floor? If this is a large organisation can space not be found for her and perhaps some of her colleagues on another floor?
I have in certain places seen complete changes on floors with whole teams moving from floor to floor. I assume any business can do this when ever there is a need. It need not be costly as usually only boxes of personal items and maybe some paperwork is moved. Phone numbers easily changed via the switchboard.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
Andrew
Really good to hear from a professional OH who can see from both e/e & e/r point of view. You have put across what I was trying to say in a much more understandable way.
I hope to hear more from you in other strands that could do with your insight.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
I am not sure where to find it either but my employer states the same that absences caused by disability cannot be used except when calculating sick pay but in respect of inefficiency or managing performance etc it cannot be counted.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
In one of my employers office we have an employee with a similar genetic issue he is covered under DDA however as far as I am aware apart from regular check ups since he had a heart lung transplant he has not had any specific time off sick for this condition.
Even if he had I would hope that any employer would be more sympathetic.
I do not believe if this person declared himself in good health he would be lying anymore than someone who occaissionally uses a pump for their Asthma but has not actually been off sick for a long time or someone who takes Statins for high cholesterol and has not had a heart attack . Be real.
If you dismiss this person on these grounds you will be discriminating if you had not taken them on because of their disability you would have been discriminating.
As I have stated before anyone can become disabled through accident or injury or unfortunately some genetic or environmental issue that today we are unaware of .
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
As an ex smoker I can appreciate this from both sides. However I cannot understand why these patients cannot have a smoking room.
This is their home and although people work there why should prisoners who have committed sometimes horrendous crimes be allowed to smoke but those less fortunate individuals who find themselves temporarily or permanently in need of care be refused the ability to smoke. Being helped when ill does not mean losing all their human rights or does it? Do laws like this not discriminate against the disabled/elderly people in our society.
As a non smoker I feel annoyed when I try to enter a bar or restaurant through a wade of smokers. I would prefer them to have a smoking area. What happens in the summer when they are all outside and we cannot sit in the gardens etc?
However I also fed up with the non smokers who constantly bully smokers.
These non smokers often drink and drive I only had 2 pints etc or talk on their mobile whilst driving etc etc. These issues are far more serious to both themselves and others but do they care no. Leave the smokers alone.
To be quite honest I would rather stand next to a smoker of a packed stuffy train than someone who smells strongly of garlic or general bad BO or who continually passes foul smelling wind how do you stop all this.
I personally suffer from asthma and it is worse breathing in the pollution in the air than from standing next to a smoker or next to someone wearing awful perfume or using excessive stinking air spray etc
Give these people some dignity and somehow exempt them and allow smoking somewhere in the complex.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
My point is that you cannot refuse someone a job on the grounds of discrimination there are more than a few precedents in race, religion and gender. Being discriminated as disabled would be no different.
James I understand that yes a case could be taken against an OHA. however I do not believe any reputable OHA would put themselves in this position. However the discrimination would still come from the employer so any ET would deal with them.
Carole sorry if I have upset you but I am also disabled and have found that when I criticise these managers with such outdated views it becomes to personal so I try to be less confrontational these days. I agree it is disgusting that we have to educate existing Managers and Employers as they are still treating their staff in such a discriminatory manner.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
I agree that a good occupational health advisor is a must but remember they cannot advise you to sack a person because of a disability and in the end the action is taken against you not the health advisor.
Also note that all paperwork computer records must be produced to the employee if requested under Data Protection Act
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
I agree with Ann but am I wrong to assume that a Risk Assessment has been undertaken.
I know of one hospital I have visited had the bottles over the sinks or on the nurses work station etc even if you tried it would be hard to spill on floor but others have them on the wall anywhere with nothing to catch spills.
It should be noted that the hospital with good practices etc was a 3* hospital and as I live in an area of 1* hospitals This accident could have even happened in a similar hospital to mine.
I understand the point about the cleaner but losing a nurse for weeks is more costly in terms of service provision and the cleaner would be more aware as it is her job to check the floor.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
What do you mean you are trying to get this man out on disability grounds?
Beware you are falling foul of 3 issues here
1. Disability Discrimination
2. Bullying & Harrassment
3. Harrassing a H & S Rep you really need to catch up on your Safety Reps and Committees Legislation.
As I have advised others before your companies attitude is exactly why laws are made you need to see a solicitor immediately before you find yourself paying out a lot of money etc.
Firstly under DDA you should be making reasonable adjustments.
The employee was perfectly within his rights to refuse to work in a situation or undertaking work practices which he considers unsafe. Were proper Risk Assessments undertaken before even contemplating a trial? As a H & S Rep you should note he is probably more aware than most of your management team on the what/\why/\when in H & S.
Also remember the Consultation Regs it should not have got to this stage the Union Reps including H & S Reps should have been fully consulted before now.
I am presuming that in fact the employee has been sent home on full pay because your Forman did not know what else to do as you or other management had instructed him certain action must be taken ( I note you stated the Forman called him in).
Again if this was me in my management role I would be very worried. As from what has been said you have discriminated against him in more ways than one.
I would try your best to sort this issue and remember when a H & S Reps advises that there is a problem there usually is and in fact you should work together to create a more harmonious and safe working environment.
Todays press states that well motivated happy safe staff are more productive. I for one did not need a study to tell me that it is basic foundation of management skills
Note are you being set up as the fall guy here take care.
As to your last question your options for dismissal seem to be none as it is you as the employer who is being unreasonable.
Also as this person is a rep you can be sure he has well documented everything that has taken place and is more than ready for any action. Note unions do not take kindly to Bullying and Harrassment of their Reps.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
This is not only schools but all Public Sector in fact the Civil Service are worse because they have Crown Immunity and therefore only ever get a slap on the wrist.
Also lets be hoinest HSE and Local Health & S Inspectors are paid by the Government and therefore are targeted away from Public Service.
In all my time I have only ever known HSE become involved if a union rep or member of staff have pushed a situation big time or something so serious has happened and the press have got hold of it so they cannot cover it up. This is not only Asbestos but all problems.
Rate this!
sheena farenden
Member - 52 posts
I have noticed that individual staff have their own small bottles pinned to their uniform could this be the culprit. As the lid hangs downwards if they do not close properly it would drip.
I fail to see how anybody could drip a large amount unless a delibrate act. Each time I have used the gel it has evaporated due to body heat and alcohol content to have a large enough amount to drip on floor would mean pushing the pump quite a few times.
All I can say is that at least this place has bottles of gel and people use it not the case in a lot of hospitals.
H & S legislation states that all employees are responsible for \\\\\\H & S of themselves and others using the workplace so they shoul keep an eye on the situation and report as necessary maybe have the cleaner clean that area more frequently.
0 (0)
