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John Gallacher
Member - 15 posts
We operate a number of sportsbars and nightclubs and have a thorough health & safety management structure and procedure in place. Recently a customer fell when her friend jumped on her back (they were under the influence of alcohol).This resulted in a fractured ankle. She has since contacted the local H & S authority (claiming it was too dark and she did not have anything to drink) who contacted myself and asked for our internal accident reports which were duly supplied.
However, during the conversation the gentleman asked if I had reported the accident under RIDDOR. I stated "no as it was not specifically work related" although it did occur on our premises. His advice was then slightly confusing and to be honest it did not really sound like he knew the answer himself.
Accordingly I am looking for advice on whether we should report any accidents of this type.
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Dale Collins - Bond Pearce LLP
Online advisor - 9 posts
Good morning John
The duty to report an accident to a non-employee only arises where the non-employee is injured in an accident arising "out of or in connection with work" AND it results in them being taken to hospital for treatment.
There is certainly an argument that the incident referred to arose "out of or in connection with work" if the incident arose due to a failure to supervise those on site properly and/or through the condition of the premises (lack of adequate lighting).
However, even if that is the case, the duty only arises if you know that the person was then taken to hospital from the premises.
Please do not hesitate to contact me to discuss further should you wish.
Dale Collins
0117 9174064
dale.collins@osborneclarke.com
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David Sharp - Workplace Law Network
Online advisor - 127 posts
John - Regulation 2 of RIDDOR is quite specific:
"Accident includes an act of non-consensual physical violence done to a person at work. This means that injuries through physical violence to people not at work are not reportable".
The regulations also state that any injury caused to people at work which arises over a personal matter is also not reportable.
From what you say, and assuming your company has no connection with these two people, I cannot see why you would have reported this accident under RIDDOR. There are clearly other factors that will muddy the water (arguments over alcohol consumption, lighting, floor surface), but none of these need to be taken into account under RIDDOR.
The more interesting theoretical question is this: if the two women were 'at work' (for example, discussing a business development deal), should their own employer report the accident under RIDDOR? And if they were drinking, what policy might their employer have in place with regard to personal safety?
Hope this helps.
David Sharp, Workplace Law Group
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David Sharp - Workplace Law Network
Online advisor - 127 posts
John - I wrote my comments at the same time as Dale, above, and was interested to see his interpretation. Having spoken with him, I can see that there might be an argument to suggest an "out of or in connection with work" situation here, though I do stand by my original comments.
It would be worth you reading a copy of the guidance notes to RIDDOR, which has some useful illustrations. I've put in the link below.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hsis1.pdf
David Sharp, Workplace Law Group
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Iain MacLeod
Member - 54 posts
Sounds like a scam to get compensation from the sports bar insurer.
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David Sharp - Workplace Law Network
Online advisor - 127 posts
Patrick - I'm not so sure about a scam. It sounds more to me like someone in authority who doesn't know exactly what the law requires, and so to be on the safe side, they make things more onerous for businesses than they need to be. It's not what the law was meant to be for.
David
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Anonymous
John if person taken to hospital by ambulance from your premises reportable otherwise not reportable.
Duty of care would come into play i suggest if you allowed customer to get intoxicated on your premises and was then the cause of an Accident incident better for you if the claimant says she was not drinking.
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Anonymous
Our owner and managing director was having a private family dinner in a restaurant and a waiter spilled a plate of curry down his arm burning it and removing the skin over a sizeable area. He is reluctant to take this further but should the restaurant report the incident anyway?
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Anonymous
I have in the recent past reported an accident to the HSE at the Caerphilly reporting centre that occured to a visitor to my premises which is a public art gallery. The accident occured when an elderly visitor fell and broke an ankle and was then taken directly to hospital by ambulance. I was subsequently contacted by the HSE and informed that it was not reportable as it was not work related.
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John Gallacher
Member - 15 posts
Thanks for all your comments, there are very helpful. I am of the personal opinion that the lady in question is looking for an insurance payout, fortunately we have independant witnesses who state they were larking about. The local HSE Officer has since visited the site and has declared they are happy with the layout and the amount of lighting, accordingly there is no negligence on our part. I think the work related secanario would only come into play if a customer was injured due to poor lighting, wet floors etc.
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