Body Odour

Ciaron Dunne
Member - 85 posts

Hi Julia,

Although this is not a performance or discipline matter, it is a problem that can cause irritation (and therefore poor performance) among other employees.

Before you address this particular problem, you should consider drawing up a plan of the route you a prepared to take in such cases, preferably in consultation with interested parties (health and safety manager, HR, union rep, etc.).

For example, you may wish to start with a private conversation where you inform the employee of the problem, and try, where possible, to address the cause (e.g. medical problems). You can then move to your formal disciplinary route if the employee fails to act.

You should record all conversations and keep a record on file.

It goes without saying that a high level of tact will be required to avoid causing offence and potentially ending up in front of a tribunal. The employee will appreciate the matter being kept private.

It will be interesting to hear if other members have any experience of similar situations, or advice on how to handle the problem.

Ciaron

simon white
Member - 1 post

Hi Julia,

do you really think this person, presumably on a probationary period wants to smell ? if you decide the answer is no he does not, then do you not agree he is most likely already doing everthing he can to overcome his problem. This a health problem similar to acne. Someone who suffers acne is not necessarily dirty. Do you think it is reasonable to request that a person disfigured with acne should mask his face or wash more frequently. For a person with a body odour problem washing might aleviate the problem for an hour or so. Why don't you consider measures to make him sweat less, lower the office temperature, make him less stressed with a welcome card and a smile. If you are still not content why not purchase him a product that he can use if he chooses. However if you can find a product or a solution that totally cures body odour please let me know.

Stephen Turner
Member - 9 posts

I have had experience of having to deal with this problem with an employee. I had a private conversation with the him where I raised the issue of his odour. Despite it being quite strong he was unaware of it and was at a loss as to it's cause, that was the first question he asked me. His odour did improve and both his confidence at the workplace and his relations with other employess benefited.

I agree with Ciaron that you should try and address the cause, and be prepared to do so. These could range from inneffective laundry, through to diet or a more serious medical problem. You should also act promptly, it may harm the employees relationship with other staff if the problem is not dealt with.

You may also be able to get some guidance from EMAS.

As to Simons comments, I can find little but fault! As I said the employee I dealt with was unaware of the problem. A card and a smile probably won't do much to manage stress, and the cure is probably best left to the employee personally (unless he requests help) or his medical practicioner.

Les Wilson
Member - 4 posts

I totally agree with Ciaron and Stephen.

I have had to deal with this issue on three occasions at different companies. If handled sensitively, this can often be of benefit to the individual, making them aware of the issue and giving them a chance to actually do something about it.

In each of the cases that I dealt with, the individuals had been unaware that they had a body odour problem. One subsequently consulted her Doctor, who was able to help resolve the issue. The second bought himself some extra shirts and washed them more often and the third (a security officer) was issued with additional changes of uniform.

All were embarrassed at having been spoken to, but subsequently expressed appreciation that they had been made aware of the issue and been given help and support in resolving it.

All went on to enjoy successful and happy careers.

If the problem is a medical condition then a different tack would need to be taken. However, if you don't ask, then you (and they) may never get the chance to find out.

Anonymous

Stephen is quite right - the person probably does not even know that they have a problem and the only way to tackle it is a private conversation as soon as possible before the existing staff ostracize the newcomer.(sadly, people will do this). Not an easy task but the individual has to be made aware of the problem and if there is an underlying medical difficulty the individual has the opportunity to explain it and the discussion can move on as to how to reduce the impact of this problem. One thing is for certain, the sooner the issue is addressed the better.

Anonymous

Everyone has an off day, the secret is to know what day is yours!!

daniel green
Member - 2 posts

Hi Julia,

Experiece suggests that swift action is required in order to solve this problem. I suggest that you take this person aside (off the record) and tell them that they smell. Do not say that there have been complaints from other staff as this may be very demotivating for the individual concerned. Using charm and charisma, make it sound like you are doing them a favour whilst at the same time make the conversation positive by adding that you are happy with thir work in general etc. People can usually take a negative aslong as it is 'wrapped up' in a positive.

Whilst it is widely awknowleged that some people are naturally smellier than others there can be no excuse, not even medical for being repugnant. In the majority of cases people with b.o are just too lazy to wash frequently or use the right products, or seek the necessary medical assistance. It is important that you set the boundaries of acceptability that this person has crossed.

Simon fails to awknowlegde that personal hygeine IS personal and therefore the individual should take responsibility for this problem and not the business. Taking his advice will result in a very unpleasant summer.

PRACTICAL ADVICE

Excessive body odour is caused by bacteria.

In order to combat this, body hair such as that under armpits should be trimmed. Obviously showering daily is helpful as is using deoderant on freshly washed skin. Using a deoderant with a 24 hr anti-perspirent is essential. In addition b.o may be controlled by applying antiseptic cream such as sudocreme to the affected areas.

DONT SWEAT IT OUT. ACT KNOW!

Hayley Stone
Member - 25 posts

I have had experience with this issue in the past where a colleague walked to work every day, (wearing warm clothing as it was cold when he left the house). He also wore the same shirt ALL WEEK! It could be argued that there would be a certain amount of body odour resulting from his exertion on the morning, however, there is no doubt that the problem was exacerbated by his personal hygiene regime. In this case, the employee was spoken too several times, but it was only when we were out socialising and someone mentioned it to his wife that the problem went away!

On another occasion, a young lady had a similar problem, which, she was totally unaware of. The issue here was simply that to save time on a morning, she showered on an evening. This evidently did not suit her personal "requirements". The girl changed her regime,a dn the problem disappeared.

The point here, is that it IS a difficult issue, and everyone is very different. If your guy seems to be ok, and genuinely unaware, then a quick chat should be all thats needed. Just grit your teeth and go for it...

Anonymous

I have read with interest the comments made on this topic, which obviously needs sensitive handling. I would like to ask if anyone has experienced a similar problem but in relation to flatulence. I have been asked for advice as to what course of action a particular employee could take as her manager suffers badly from this affliction and as a result so do others in close proximity. This is not a joke but a real problem and I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Anonymous

I don't think that I have ever had a problem with BO, but I know that if I am under stress or working long hours I tend to get bad breath. I have always made it clear to my colleagues that I would far rather one of them tipped me off as soon as possible so that I can deal with it, than go through the day with dog's breath and leave everyone reeling!

Anonymous

There are two main causes of offensive levels of body odour, poorly cleaned bodies and poorly cleaned clothes. The latter is more commonly the bigger problem. Clothes can be worn through a hard days work and not smell but if worn again without washing, bacteria will have a 'head start' and rapidly multiply to levels that cause quite a pungent smell.

My advice would be to talk to the person (who may not even be aware), about a fictitious person that you have met with this problem and get them to speculate the cause with you whilst guiding the conversation to the possibility of washing (clothes and body). Talking in this way will give the individual the opportunity to mend his/her ways without the embarrassment of a direct approach.

Anonymous

Great comments which have helped me feel confident about talking to someone in about 2hrs time.

Like you say grit your teeth, be sensitive and just do it !!

Thanks

George Hall
Member - 1 post

It is good to see that people taking initiative to alert the person with the odour problem. However, sometime the problem may not have to do with either cleanliness of the body or clothes.

I know of someone with irritable bowel syndrome which results in him farting all day. The worse part is the accumulated odour in the body that would hang around even after having showered in the office twice a day. He bath in the morning before changing into clean work clothes.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Mike Wyatt
Member - 2 posts

Hello George,

I don't know the kind of work that the individual to whom you refer does. However, is it possible to provide home -working facilities for him, if not full-time then part-time? If feasible, this would alleviate an embarrassing situation for the individual (and colleagues)and may have a positive effect on productivity.

Anonymous

I'd say good medical advice is beyond the scope of this forum, but it's probably going to be the best solution. As it seems you are communicating perhaps the company could offer funding to the employee to see a private specialist.

I'm sure that £1000 spent on such a specialist by the company would go further to resolving the problem in the long term than any physical isolation or ventilation measures costing the same.

www.lasius.com

Michael Miotk
Member - 21 posts

I had both female and male members of staff I had to address this concern. I took the female member of staff into a private room and mentioned about the personal hygiene problem, she thanked me and said she wasn't aware of the problem. Rather than saying I have received complaints about this, I said that I have noticed. This way she corrected the problem and all my staff are still working as a functional team. If I told her I had received complaints, then I feel she would have been wondering who!

The male member of staff was different in as much as I took him a private room and mentioned about the personal hygiene problem! He told me that it was a medical condition and that some days he has no control but is taking something to try and control it. He also thanked me and said he would visit his GP and get his medication adjusted.

I feel if I hadn't mentioned this the problems would have grown out of all proportion, but with a sensitive, caring, understanding approach the problems were solved. If I had this kind of problem I certainly would rather someone tell me (privately) than for me to be avoided and regected. Everyone has problems at some stage, whether it be medical or personal. The main this is sesitivity, understanding and respect.

Anonymous

Thanks for the advice. I have been agonising over how to proceed with this, and your suggestions all point to the same method: deal with the complaint sooner, rather than later; and in as non-offensive a way as possible

Anonymous

I need to get an better idea of exactly what to say to bring the issue of clothing or bosy odor to an employees attention without offending them. If anyone can give me some examples would be much appreciated, in a tough situation. thanks

Anonymous

I have the same issue in our small team and had already been down the route of quiet word then later another to say that the problem was still there. Many of the staff have made underhand comments of which I am sure he has oicked up. It does not seemed to have made a blind bit of difference to the individual. I have even spoke to him about a friend of mine who shared this problem but rectified it after seeking medical help. The problem is where does a company stand legally with a problem that may be viewed as a 'disability' or the employee makes no attempt to rectify the problem. It is now becoming a serious issue within the team

Anonymous

In our office we have had problem with 3 people. All cases are all due to poor personal hygiene. I work in IT and for some reason this seems to attract middle-aged single men who have an aversion to washing.

Case 1 Person X

Person X is single lives in a cold bed-sit which he refuses to heat because of the expense. He has no washing machine and wears shirts for up to 5 days without a wash. His method of washing clothes is to soak them in a bath with some travel-wash and then hang them to dry. His 'white' shirts have large green any yellow areas around the armpits due to the poor washing which look disgusting. As the clothes are not properly washed and the length of time they take to drip dry in a cold flat they smell mouldy, greasy and of rotting body odour. A colleague who sat in the vicinity of this person logged a complaint that he had actually somehow caught 'the smell' and it had made his bed sheets at home smell the same as the persons body odour. This person had somehow caught the bacteria or fungal spores and transmitted them to his own bed sheets. A normal temperature wash did not get rid on the smell from the bed sheets. The smell and cause of infection could only be removed by boil washing the sheets. Exposure to these bacteria or fungal spores can also be a health hazard causing serious illnesses like bronchitis.

Case 2 Person Y

Person Y is single. He has been told 5 times in the past that he must wash. He has very bad dandruff, smells and generally doesn't take care of personal hygiene, he also has old food stains on his shirt and quite often the odd morsel has been spotted in his in beard. He has had complaint raised to his manager from people who have done no more than walk past him in the corridor. People also refuse to sit on chairs he has sat on because they are covered in snowflakes of dandruff and small hairs (which are not from his head). Each time this person is told they smell they wash for about a week but then return to their old smelly ways.

Case 3 Person Z.

This person only has a bath twice a week but cycles 4 miles into work every day. This person has what we would all know as standard BO 2 or 3 times a week though it can only be smelt when you get within a few feet of the person.

In my view Person X and Person Y are risking the health and wellbeing of other work colleagues and it is only due to being lazy and poor personal hygiene, not a medical condition. In my opinion this should be dealt with by official disciplinary procedures. Person Z is probably what most of us are used to when we say someone 'has BO' and this should be dealt with by just being taken to one side and told that they have this problem.

Anonymous

I had this problem with a colleague several years ago. It was an appalling smell and myself and other colleagues suffered in silence for months.

Eventually we decided to buy him a can of deoderant, wrap it in gift paper and just left it anonymously on his work bench. This certainly did the trick, whether out of embarrassment or realisation thet we had noticed but he never smelt again and nobody had to approach the subject with him. The perfect solution I would say!

Michael Miotk
Member - 21 posts

Ian,Hi

I feel your solution is a calus almost cowards way of dealing with a sensitive situation. What if the condition stems from a medical condition? I would have been devistated if I saw a can of deoderant on my desk. Personal communication is the best way to deal with a sensitive situation, at least you can find out the cause before a parson is marked as lazy and dirty. No I think you went at it the wrong way. Body odour is similar to a persons house odour, they get used to the smell because they are with it 24/7. A house is the same, if no one makes the first move then nothing will be done. I have nursed people with body odour caused by drugs, and medical conditions, its not nice, even for the person with the condition. That poor collegue probably thought everyone was against him. Think before you act, how would I feel if I was told, or how would I feel if I found a can on my desk, I certainly would favour the former. I don't smell, or I don't think so, the only people that would know is others around me!!!!!!! Think!

Anonymous

This is indeed a very sensitive issue and I have had to deal with it on several occassions.

I work in a health care setting and personal hygiene is a very emotive issue.

The comments that I disagree with, are mainly in relation to the ultimate outcome of the "BO" being a problem.

Anyone who has an offensive body odour and works with other people who find it offensive ARE breaching health and Safety/Employment Law guidelines... namely "causing disruption and disharmony in the workplace" and can therefore be dealt with in this way.

A bit harsh but, believe me some folk do just refuse to wash/bath/change clothes or address the issue!

Anonymous

I've read the comments posted on this page with keen interest as i've suffered from a terrible case of body odour /mouth odour for the past 4 years. I am 25, male and otherwise fit.

People cover their noses when walk pass me anywhere - either at work / public transport , even in smoke filled pubs.

When a kind receptionist called me aside and alerted me to the problem in 2001, little did i know that this will be such a life-wrecking problem as it is turning out to be.

I immediately stepped up my hygenie (which wasnt bad anyway). To my horror, things didnt change. I went to my GP who advised on hygenie, changing clothes daily & diet - and later sent me in to hospital for tests etc. still nothing was discovered to be out-of-place.

To cut a long & miserable sorry short, in the last 4 years, I have seen made about 30 trips to hospitals seeing about 8 different specialities, have cameras inserted into my stomach through throat & anus, blood tests, scans, x-rays, recieved hours of counselling & psychotherapy etc. I have also privately consulted natural practitioners & nutritionists, invested heavily in perfumes, deodorants, antiperspirants and mints. I have recently changed GPs and my new GP says their is nothing wrong with me physically as far as she is concern.

As you can imagine it is impossible to form any sort of personal relationship with anyone. I have tried to develop a way of dealing with the embarassment by looking away from people when working on the street, avoiding eye contact when i can, stay away from public places unless absolute neccesary etc. I work in an open office with 15 others and people just cover move the hands to their nose as soon as they work past. (My manager covertly tries to hint to me that i smell by saying jokingly that i need a new deodorant) I live 5 minutes away from work so i shower 3 times a day (before going to work, lunchtime & bedtime). But still no luck. I cry myself to sleep most night wondering why this is happening to me. I think i might be heading for a breakdown.

There appears to be very little one can do without a GP.

Does anyone know anything i do/ anyone (non-psychiatric) i can see for help without involving my GP. My life depends on how soon i can get help. Im in London, but i can travel to see anywhere for treatment.

Anonymous

DaveNiek,

I understand that in your particular case that it is not your fault and that is probably as tough for you putting up with your own smell as it is for the people who sit near you. I've never met anyone who has a medical problem that makes them smell. I think that it is probably caused by a bacterial infection and the right combination of antibiotics should clear it up. If it is not this then it could be a fungal infection. This could be transmitted to other people in your office as an airborne infection so you may in fact be a health hazard and are almost certainty affecting their wellbeing. Although it is not your fault that you smell you should take all precautions not to inflict your smell on other people in the workplace. Here are my suggestions:

Sit by some ventilation in the office

Get an office of your own.

Try a course of strong antibiotics from your doctor.

Have a shower in the morning before you go to work and dry yourself thoroughly to avoid getting any fungal infections.

Use a mouthwash.

Put on clean underwear and a clean shirt every day.

Change your bed sheets every week.

Check you haven't got atheletes foot and if you have treat it with an antifungal.

Are you sure that you are not overstating the problem and that is it infact a psychiatric problem?

I'm sure that your problem can be solved and that the cause it either a bacteria or a fungus. You can see your doctor and ask for referal to a specialist in a hospital.

Michael Miotk
Member - 21 posts

Ashley,

You are the typical type of ignorant person who should not deal with anyone who has this type of medical problem!

I found your solution to be arogant, dictating, patronising and downright offensive. If you took time to read davids article you would have seen he is doing quite a lot of what you have suggested already.

I do not personally have a problem in this area, but like any other disability I can feel for the person. Also, by placing the person, with what you called an infliction near 'some ventilation in the office' are you not circulating the infliction around a greater area.

I agree, if someone is just lazy and doesn't wash for what ever reason, then yes, have a sensitive word, but establish whether it is medical first condition first. I was once a male nurse and have met several people with this condition (MEDICALLY), and I tell you, they feel worse then we do I could walk away and forget about it until the next shift.

I'm sorry but your comments amazed me, to the point of being stuned. I in turn I don't want to offend you. Any type os dibilating condition is not only a surface visable condition, it affects people emotionally, and phychologically, your suggestions seem otherwise.

Sorry!

Anonymous

Michael Miotk,

I have just tried to be direct and factual about DaveNiek's problem. As someone who has had to work with people who have very bad problems with odour, though in my case it is through their own lack of personal hygiene, I really don't think people should have to put up with bad smells that affect their wellbeing when working in an office environment even if it is a medical problem that the other person has. You may think so but then that's your choice and you have no right to tell anyone that they should put up with it. I look at it just like any other environmental aspect in the office that is a health and safety risk or affects the wellbeing of other employees like lack of ventilation, noise etc. If I had the same medical problem I wouldn't want people to put up with my smell and would want to do whatever was necessary to prevent them subjected to a bad odour, even if it mean moving into my own personal office. Believe me it is not pleasant having to smell someone else?s smell 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for years on end! It can end up being the focus of your life and make your working life a misery. I feel sorry for DaveNiek but he must be practical about the problem and people who don't want to work in a smelly environment must have the choice not to do so. It's a difficult balance but not an impossible one. It also affects different people differently. For one person it may not bother them much but for another it may become the unbearable focus of their life. I feel sorry for DaveNiek's problem but you cannot risk other people's wellbeing when there is a satisfactory work around.

Anonymous

What a brilliant forum! I have just taken on a new secretary on a temp contract, with a view to making it permanent. I noticed an odour problem at the interview, but she was such a perfect candidate that I overlooked it (hoping she was having an off day!).

Unfortunately, her problem did not get any better. Wondering what I should do, I read these messages and decided to talk to her discreetly but directly today (her third day).

I used the approach recommended by some posters - talking to her out of view of other staff, praising the positive and then addressing the problem honestly. She said that although she washed every morning, she didn't wear deodorant as it irritated her skin (I live in hot, humid Singapore, where you can't really get away with no deo!). She actually said that she didn't know, no-one had said anything at other places in which she'd worked and she really WAS grateful that I'd mentionned it (I had doubted that anyone actually would be grateful, although I had read this in the thread). I suggested that there were deodorants which were especially good for people with sensitive skin and she was quite keen to try them. Once the topic was aired, we were able to carry on working in a normal way, with no awkwardness in the relationship.

She would come into contact with people in her job and I was thinking I would have to look for someone else, so the advice on this forum has been quite invaluable!

Honesty was definitely the best policy in this case.

Anonymous

Hi all, glad I found this forum. We have a bloke who constantly smells of stale urine (which I particularly find worse than the stale sweaty type of BO). His clothes are filthy, he misses everytime he uses the toilet (probably why he smells of pee) and it is getting on everyones nerves. When he walks down the corridor there is a 'cloud' of stench following him.

He has been spoken to and even had a letter sent in regard to personal hygiene (this is a food business by the way!) but to no avail.

It is that bad that we sometimes gag from the smell. It seems to get worse as the week progresses - as though he has just one wash a week. In my opinion this is not a medical condition - just pure laziness!

Anyone any advice of how this could be sorted out? Apart from sacking the bloke for failing to comply with work's hygiene procedures?

Hayley Stone
Member - 25 posts

Anon, 20th Dec,

I don't believe you have any option other than to formally approach this person using your disciplinary procedures, especially in light of your "food" environment.

However, as all that has been done so far is to write to him, I doubt you would "sack him" immediately. If you have read the comments posted here, you will be aware that there may be underlying medical conditions also, and to show that you have taken a sensitive approach it may be worth making an appointment for him to see your occupational nurse (if you have one).

(I am surprised you feel confident to say that he "misses every time" but this in itself could have medical causation... I don't know, we girls do things quite differently!)

At the end of the day, in a food environment, hygiene standards are set to protect the public as well as the workforce, and so you effectively have an enhanced duty of care. It is vital that this issue is cleared up.

My suggestion would be that you follow all the good guidelines mentioned above, take him to one side, etc but as he has already been spoken to, ASK him if he is aware the problem persists. Ask whether or not he has sought any medical advice, offer a meeting with the nurse. If he fails to respond, then explain that due to the potential health risks from bacteria etc, and the nature of your working environment, it is essential the problem is cleared up. Give him appropriate notice of a disciplinary hearing, and tackle the issue head on.

Disciplinary procedures can be used to good effect, even in sensitive situations, providing your ultimate aim is to correct the problem, and not to dismiss.

I would imagine your other staff will be finding this particular situation highly unpleasant, and you will need to bear in mind that it is difficult to enforce other hygiene practices, when you have such an obvious and continuing problem.

Good luck, but don't delay, and remember if you do need to resort to disciplinary measures, make sure you are procedurally correct at all times.

Anonymous

Hi there. can anybody tell me if a person can be dismissed for body odour.
It is a most difficult problem that
may offend others but also may be caused by stressfull working enviroment.
If anyone can give a view from a legal standpoint, I would be pleased to hear it. Thanks and regards Ray.

Anonymous

This is a brilliant forum - like FranQ I've just taken on a Receptionist/Admin on a permanent basis having worked as temp with us. Her work is brilliant, but she's got a BO problem which I've been wondering how to deal with. I've noticed the problem and several members of staff has approached me about it so I know it has to be dealt with. She's had a lot of personal issues to deal with of late but I think there is a lack of personal hygiene - not showering daily and clothes not being washed regularly. Having read some of the comments here I feel I can now deal with the problem. I welcome the comments someone saying not to say to the individual that other people have noticed but say that 'I've noticed' - that is really useful. By saying that, she will not feel that people have been talking about her. I shall deal with this now!

Thanks.

Anonymous

We have a member of staff where I work, who has a whole range of problems. Body odour does play a small part in in, but the main problem is that they suffer from psoriasis.
Whilst I empathise (I suffer from eczema)with the condition and the symptoms, the situation is made worse but their constant picking.

Removing strips of skin from the inflamed areas (and proudly displaying them!) until they bleed and require first aid attention, has led to a loss of sympathy on all our parts.

The other (related) problem is the scratching when using the loo.
This leaves large flakes of skin on both the toilet floor and seat, which our cleaner has to vac up sometimes twice a day!

My question is, how do we approach this situation without making it discriminatory. Is the skin effectively a 'bio-hazard'? Please help!

Martin Pickering
Member - 5 posts

I have very mild psoriasis and the urge to pick at it can be quite strong (although not insurmountable - consider it like nail biting). In any case, picking at the skin will aggravate the inflammation and increase the affected area. Unwashed nails can also infect the skin of the sufferer (but not others), adding to the problem.

Psoriasis is not in itself an infection or contagious, and no more of a health hazard than dandruff, but throwing skin shards around deliberately is inexcusable behaviour. It has to be said, however, that psoriasis is an embarrassing condition and some sufferers deal with this by making a joke of it. They do need understanding but they also need to be told when they've overstepped the line.

There are some reasonably effective treatments now which, although not cures, can greatly reduce the inflammation and the amount of skin that becomes flakey.

What works for me might not work for others but I'll mention them anyway:

Dovobet (a mix of Dovonex and Betnovate) helps to soften the skin and to reduce the immune reaction which causes the problem. Dovonex by itself is an emollient and Betnovate is a cortisone which combats the build up of white cells. They can be used singly or together. Prescription only.

E45 available over the counter is an emollient and helps to soothe the skin.

HC45 is an over-the-counter 1% hydrocortisone cream which helps combat the immune reaction that causes the excessive skin production.

Trimovate (Prescriotion only) is a yellow cream that combines a hydrocortisone with an anti-fungal and an antibacterial agent. Very useful where infection has begun - especially in moist places such as between the toes and the crevice of the backside. Very effective against athlete's foot as well.

There's another prescription cream whose name I forget. It stains the skin brown and I haven't found it very useful.

Most useful is Dovobet which is clear, colourless, odourless and doesn't stain skin or clothing. Applied sparingly, once or twice a day, it does help to keep the problem under control.

The other creams can be used sparingly in rotation. Used to excess, they cause an adverse reaction with the skin becoming thin and red. Ordinary "moisturiser" creams can be helpful in keeping the skin soft and reducing flaking and risk of infection.

Psoriasis is not associated with body odour and there's really no excuse for not bathing - a soak in warm salty water helps to remove dead skin and reduce infection.

While some fabric conditioners and detergents might affect dermatitis sufferers, I have not found that to be the case with my own psoriasis. Therefore I see no reason not to have a complete change of freshly-laundered clothing every day.

There is an injection available that completely "cures" the condition in some people. However, it does so by dulling the immune system, which can be a life-threatening side effect. Consequently, it's offered only to sufferers who are really badly affected by psoriasis (like 80% of their body area).

I realise that I haven't told you what to do about your staff member - that's not my field of expertise - but I hope my notes might help you to decide.

Anonymous

I am faced with a very uncomfortable situation at work. I have worked for an organization for a year and we have a staff member who have severe body odor problems. This man has been spoken to several times as he has an extremely offensive smell that, in fact, make several individuals gag - a few of us even fight off vomitting when near him on an extended basis.

I have an extremely keen senses and I must hold my breath when passing this individual as much as three yards in either direction as I am one of the few who must fight off the physical reaction of vomitting. My problem is that this individual has overpowering odors of strong ammonia, fecal, rotting skin and some type of disinfectant. I am aware that this person has a host of medical problems as he is morbidly obese. I sympathize to his problems but do not know how to approach the problem as many approaches have been tried over the 15 years that he has worked with the company.

This person is valuable to the company because he is the main generator of business and is very good at what he does. I have respect for his abilities and he is a genuinely nice person. Despite his excellent qualities, I feel he does not respect others because he is aware of the problem. Monday seems to be the only day he does not have a problem, so it leads us to suspect there is a significant hygiene problem. We have adequate health care coverage that he can take advantage of for more frequent home care.

Six months ago he moved two floors and it took two weeks for the smell where he was working to dissipate.

Several people are threatening to quit in the last month as there has once again been a lapse in his hygiene.

This person also coughs a great deal and part of the apprehension towards him is if he has a bacterial or fungal problem. My question to the forum is as follows: Are there any health and safety legislation to emissions in workplaces for this sort of thing? There are regulations regarding other odors such as off-gassing from carpets and furniture and it is seen as an environmental hazard, but what about a person who exposes others to choking odors of ammonia and such?

The desire is to have him be more vigilant in his hygiene as we work in an office that is open concept.

Mary Sunshine
Member - 1 post

I am similar to DaveNiek in that I realize I offend others with my body odour and don't want to offend others, yet can't seem to find a cure for this terrible "life-wrecking" problem! I have gross breath, feminine fishy smell that won't be cured, and a seemingly permanent fart smell to really top things off. My underarms are constantly smelly -- even the "skip a day" deodorants don't work on me -- I can't even skip 10 minutes even when I don't feel warm!

Some people in this forum should own up to being discriminatory to others. Just because the people you know had odour problems relating to poor hygiene and/or didn't know they had a problem doesn't mean this is the case for all people with odour problems. This type of overly- simplistic thinking shows a serious lack of critical thinking ability as well as serious lack of compassion for people suffering with this problem. Just think about it -- I have tried every single suggestion made in this forum except one, which I'll get to in a minute, with no luck.

Put yourself in that situation -- seriously think about it. You smell really really bad -- people hold their noses, they tell you about it, they tell you to take a shower under their breaths as you walk by or exlaim "disgusting!" Every day, in every situation you are in -- how would you honestly feel if you tried everything and nothing works?

I've asked for my own office at work and they won't give me one. Fans, ventilation, air fresheners, yada yada don't work although I still use them whenever possible because I hope it helps and they won't let me work from home.

I need to work. I am a human being too. No one discussed it with me privately, The CEO yelled indirectly at me in front of the whole office that I needed soap. OTher managers and colleauges joke and comment. My manager won't discuss it with me directly, but I am thinking I should discuss it with him anyway. What should I say?

Fortunately I have high self-esteem and high intelligence so I am a strong confident person. That is because I really don't want to smell and I do realize my smell is hard for other people to take, especially in a closed-in work environment. I really have tried/and will continue to try everything that I can to solve my problem. I hope to work from home freelance as soon as I'm able, but that will take a few years.

I never wear my clothes more than once and always wash them in Tide before wearing them again. I always shower carefully before coming to work and use underarm and feminie deodorant. I use foot powder, mouthwash, gum, mints but I have even been told I smell worse AFTER using the breath and feminine products! I've been to dentists and doctors and have tried over the counter as well as prescription meds --

the only thing I have not tried are strong antibiotics as no doctor yet has suggested/prescribed that. (Thanks to the person who gave that suggestion as I will mention that to the new doctor I will be trying next) I do have diabetes but no doctor yet has related that condition with my smells.

Paul Sam
Member - 1 post

dear Mary/DaveNiek,

I face problems similar to you guys. Please contact me if you like to,
at paulsampauls@yahoo.com

Christopher Stevenson
Member - 1 post

I'd like to know if anyone on this forum thinks it is reasonable to expect people going into their daily place of work to be subjected to revolting odours. Regardless of whether or not it is someone else's medical condition, someone's lack of personal hygiene or just a bad smell caused by some rotting matter in the office. Personally, after experiencing someone's poor hygiene at work I am of the opinion that people should NOT be subjected to these smells if they don't want to be. Also I think it is the duty of the employer to protect people who don't want to be subjected to these smells. A bad smell is something that you cannot just ignore, you cannot just stop smelling as you would also need to stop breathing.

What if for example there was an office that smelt of rotten garbage, to the extent that people working in it felt sick. Would it be reasonable to expect someone to work in this office permanently? If not why should it then be reasonable to expect someone to be subjected to the same smell just because a colleague has a medical condition? If you answer no to one question and yes to the other how do you justify the difference in your answers?

Anonymous

There was an employee who everyone had complained about in relation to body odour. An HR officer advised the employee informally about the issue but the individual strenously denied having a problem. When there was no improvement the supervisory line manager got involved and with an HR officer met with the employee to go discuss the matter. To ensure that there was no underlying medical problem the employee was referred to our Occupational Health Service doctor who advised that there was no underlying medical issue.
The employee was called back to a further meeting to discuss the outcome of the referral and they walked out. The employee subsequently lodged a formal grievance citing harassment. The problem is nowhere near solved. The grievance has not been upheld and it looks like a disciplianry route will have to be followed. We believe that we have a duty of care not only to the employee concerned but also the staff that the employee comes into contact with.

David Watson
Member - 2 posts

I general I think 99% of people who smell at work do not have a medical condition that makes them smell it is just a case of bad personal hygiene.

I also think that some of the people who say they think they have a medical condition that makes them smell are either over-worried/paranoid about very minor smells that everyone has or, more likely, have bad personal hygiene habits but make the excuse that it is really a medical condition.

There are several medical causes of bad body odour:

Bad Breath: This is normally only a problem when in close proximity to the person. This is usually temporary and can be treated by regular brushing. Often caused by food debris. Regular flossing and also brushing of the tongue should help.

Chronic bad breath is more serious and is caused by oral bacteria. Even more serious is a type of bad breath caused by chronic liver failure which smells something like matter that the liver is designed to remove from the blood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halitosis

Excessive Sweating:
I know there are medical conditions that cause people to sweat excessively but if they have had a shower in the morning the smell won't be as bad as someone without the condition who hasn't had a bath for 3 days. The use of strong over the counter anti-perspirants and more frequent/regular washing should be enough to control the condition. If this doesn't work then surgery can be performed to reduce the activity of the sweat glands. The smell of stale/mouldy sweat is 10 times worse than fresh sweat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excessive_sweating

Foot Odour:
This should be treated with regular washing and thorough drying clean socks twice a day and alternating shoes. Athletes foot should also be checked for and treated with an anti-fungal cream. Athletes foot is notoriously difficult to get rid of and needs regular persistent continuous use of an anti-fungal to achieve results sometimes over a period of several months.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_odor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletes_foot

Other causes of smells are:
Incontinence/leakage of faeces
Incontinence of urine.
Diet - for example strong smelling foods and foods that cause flatulence. Bacterial infections of the gut can also cause smells.

Some clues about what the cause of a smell could be if the cause is unknown:
A 'beery' smell could indicate a yeast condition.
The smell of nail polish remover could indicate diabetes.
An ammonia/faecal smell can be a symptom of liver disease.
A fishy smell can be a symptom of a metabolic disorder.

Richard Hawley
Member - 2 posts

Simon Wright.

That's not what Julia is meaning and a knee-jerk reaction doesn't help.

The fact is is someone does have a problem they may be completely unaware of the discomfort it causes to others. Do you really want to sit next to soeone for 7 to 9 hours a day and put up with it? I doubt it.

You can be ejected from some places for the same reason so you cannot reasonably in any way ask staff to 'shut up and put up' or you will find you lose more staff than if you just took the time to have a tactful chat.

In my experience people who refuse to tackle a problem like this do not have the managerial skills to do so tactfully and reach a solution acceptable by all.

Kate Patt
Member - 1 post

There were some comments about ?employee A smelling bad?. Few employees (during performance evals) were questioned if they had any ?discomfort? working with employee A. Some confirmed the bad odor and some denied. In a meantime the issue got out of hand and employees started loudly discuss and joke about bad smell of employee A who appears under distress hearing these comments. The management can?t fire all the employees who loudly discuss this. Also, it is unclear if there is any bad smell coming from employee A because there are some employees who work closely to employee A and deny it. In a meantime this is a food for jokes every time employee A is around. The negative comments and jokes are often overheard by visitors. Any comments on resolving this issue?

Julian Wilkinson
Member - 188 posts

In a previous company a senior director complained to me about the odours coming from a cleaner at 8.30 in the morning and wanted the individual replaced.

I felt this was a little extreme and explained that anyone who had just spent 3 hours cleaning 32 toilets would stink! he understood and backed down and complimented him on the standard of cleaning.

Just for the record this subject has been going on for a quite a while, surely it should have been cleaned up by now!

M Green
Member - 2 posts

Hasn't the world become too extreme in worrying about human body odour? Dogs are allowed to smell like dogs. Isn't it a human right to be able to smell like a human? It only seems to have become a problem in the last 30 or 40 years. Before that, it was common for the majority to bathe once a week. What has happened to the human race that makes people think everyone should smell like a Lynx deodorant?

Christine Green
Member - 3 posts

Body odour, whether linked to a medical problem or not, is, unpleasant and stressful, for all concerned. Just a suggestion...........has anyone with a medical condition here ever tried slowly cuttingout certain foods from their diet??????????, as I know that different foods DEFINATELY alter body secretions and fluids. Just a thought, which might help??? Also, I don't know if anyone can help. I am currently trying to DEFINE "good personal hygiene" so can anyone point me to a way of writing this, as an employee's guide, which removes the subjectivity from the statement? As we all know, one persons idea of what is good, is not necessarily another's. So I need to be more specific about what is required, without offending people or treating them like imbeciles. Any help would be much appreciated.