Evacuation - Disabled Person

Anne McAllister
Member - 115 posts

Does this person absolutely need to be on the 9th floor?

Iain Sanderson
Member - 28 posts

A firefighters' lift could be readily altered to be suitable for the evacuation of a disabled person. It would certainly need a system of communication from the lift landing to ensure someone is alerted to the fact that the disabled person requires to use the lift.

Alan Cox
Member - 43 posts

Phil, This is always a difficult question to advise on and I always advise discussing the problem with the person concerned as a first move because he/she may have set thoughts on the matter. You will also need to look at what facilities the building has or may require eg evacuation lift, refuge areas, evacuation aids, available help, relocation, emergency communication etc.
Many organisations simply buy an Evacuation Chair and put it on the wall and think that this is all they have to do but unfortunately they are sadly mistaken because they have to look at all the possible outcomes and as you have found establish a Personal Evacuation Plan which is not as easy as you first think.
Obviously, there are many options that you can implement but you do need to look at all of the above aspects first and what you can't do is to ask people to enter a "potentially burning building" - that a job for the Fire Service.

Kelly Mansfield - Workplace Law Network
Online advisor - 60 posts

Hi all,

I thought I'd let you know that there is a new group at www.workplacelaw.net/groups dedicated to disability issues.

It's only just been introduced but is intended to offer members a place to go to discuss any disability-related issues, ask for support from other members and experts, and share experiences.

Phil - I've invited you to join the group already, feel free to add your comments and queries to this area.

Nice to see some faces in the forum :-) Those of you who haven't uploaded your pictures yet can do so by clicking on 'profile' in the blue panel on the left-hand side of the homepage once you are logged in.

Cheers,
Kelly

Phil Lemon
Member - 46 posts

Thank yo all for your comments so far

Anne - Yes, i had considered this aspect, unfortunately, it is not practical to relocate this person to another of our floors.

Iain - We have already installed fire phones on each of the floors and currently have agreed with the landlord that the person should phone down to ensure that we know that there is someone to save

Alan - Discussions started with the person as soon as i was made aware that there was a need. there is in deed a lot more to it than it would first appear, not only that the person is already employed and working and i now have to devise a plan. It may have been more sensible for those recruiting to approach me before the person started and not after. I feel that the way this recruitment was done has put the person more at risk.

Kelly - I have joined up and cross posted within the group

Mark Lovibond
Member - 1 post

Interesting topic to which I would like to join in and ask some advice:

Our office has a parttime administrator who I have noticed is slow moving and often need to rest-up and catch breath when going up or downstairs. The person in question is (i guess) over 60 years of age and often complains of stiff joints (Arthritis?).

How should I go about ascertaining whether a PEP is required for them?

Kevin Brown
Member - 73 posts

Mark, You're half way there already. You've already made some sort of informal assessment that this individual needs more consideration than is usual, faced with the prospect of evacuating the building. You now need to get together with the individual, and any other interestd parties, and explore what would happen if the alarm went off. Maybe you have records of drills which could inform you of any serious concerns where your administrator is concerned. If he or she has difficulty with drills, they'll be similarly challenged with a real incident.

Phil Lemon
Member - 46 posts

Mark
have you considered an occupational health assessment which, along with assurances to the party concerned that you are trying to help and not move them out may help you both to assess any condition and gain professional medical advice on how you proceed.

in the mean time, start assesssing the egress possibilities against your environment.

Failing to do something now that you have noted it could i think be construed as avioiding taking the necessary steps

sheena farenden
Member - 49 posts

Phil

Can I ask why it is not practical to move her to another floor? If this is a large organisation can space not be found for her and perhaps some of her colleagues on another floor?

I have in certain places seen complete changes on floors with whole teams moving from floor to floor. I assume any business can do this when ever there is a need. It need not be costly as usually only boxes of personal items and maybe some paperwork is moved. Phone numbers easily changed via the switchboard.

Phil Lemon
Member - 46 posts

Sheena
I have considered this, in brief, we occupy 6 floors of an 12 story building and have floors 4-9. To change the layout of our lowest floor (total refurb) and move the 65+ people along with their furniture from 9 to 4 and replicate the requirements of the 4th on the 9th to accommodate that 50+ including training facilities and equipment and move them was one of the considerations. whilst this is an option, i do not think that it is practical in business terms.
Other floors below the 4th
Ground floor- Occupied by landlord and canteen
1st Floor - Occupied by another company
2nd and 3rd - Currently vacant but again would require total refit and move, considerable cost and disruption to the business.

Whilst i understand the concept of desk mobility and all of our pc profiles are mobile these days, this person works as part of a team of 60+ and i would still be faced with maybe slightly less of the same problem if this person were moved to the 4th. If it was me (i work in a team of 1) i could find a desk on the 4th floor tomorrow and work from there, but it would still be 4 floors

Devil's advocate says: The cost of life can not be measured!
But i have to look at all the options, i have to put a business case for the £100k++ that any refit and disruption would cost the business against programming a lift or training and supply of Evac chair or other ways of getting this person safely out of the building......along with finding other options

Desmond Weeden
Member - 1 post

Why do all of us able bodies people try to find the solutions for people with a diability. People with disabilities have excellent minds and can normally think of (if they dont know already) the best solutions to their problems. The various organisations supporting the disabled are also normally very pleased to help if they can. Therefore dont try to think of all the solutions yourself. Involve those organisations who really know about disability, as well as the affected individual themself. In addition speak to your Fire Brigade as even after the creation of the The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 they are still happy to advise on such matters.

Phil Lemon
Member - 46 posts

Desmond

I apreciate your points
I am FULLY aware of the wealth of skills and knowledge of those who are 'differently able' or disabled having issues myself, with family menbers and friends. I would not presume to know everything about other peoples disability. The experts i have on their diability are themselves.
I consider it is part of my role in the company to help those with additional life challenges to fullfil their potential by clearing the hurdles and making this workplace accessible to them. I have always tried to be solution lead and have actively encouraged the recruitment of people with disabilities.

I am consulting as widly as possible to get a resolution to this issue - with the Brigade, the person concerned and this forum and more.

It is important to look at all of the issues, not just the disability. The legislation and regulations surrounding the workplacethe skills and knowledge ofthose involved mean that someone has to coordinate the task identified - That is where i come in

Alan Cox
Member - 43 posts

I think that Phil is taking the right course and by seeking a wide selection of comments he is looking at all of the options available. You will note that in my reply I commented "This is always a difficult question to advise on and I always advise discussing the problem with the person concerned as a first move because he/she may have set thoughts on the matter" - whilst this is always my first action you have to remember that there are also the able bodied to consider and I remember one situation where we were trying to find a solution for someone in a high rise block with over 2000 occupants. The building was a modern building with protected areas, evacuation aids and a buddy system. The disabled person was on the 10th floor and it was not possible to relocate her and she felt that she should be evacuated first rather than towards the end. I spent considerable time with her explaining why it was not possible and explaining the arrangements that we were proposing but she could not accept the situation that she should be left to the last. Unfortunately, the word you have to remember in this situation is "reasonable" and clearly it was not reasonable to put the safety of a large number of occupants at risk for one person. This is exactly the same type of situation you face in hospital where you evacuate those in immediate danger first, then the ambulant and then those that are the most difficult to move.
Alan