Smoking restrictions

Jem Sarna
Member - 7 posts

Philip,

The bill in its current form has this exemption statement:

Exemptions
(2) Examples of descriptions of premises which may be specified are the following
(a) premises where a person has his home, or is living whether permanently or temporarily (including hotels, care homes and prisons???.

I would assume that that your accommodation may well fall into this category?

Philip Palethorpe
Member - 12 posts

Thanks Jem.
I would assume then for the Nurses Home, that the individual's bedroom is ok for smoking (unless, of course, it impacts on others) but the communal areas should be no smoking

David Wright - Kennedys
Online advisor - 3 posts

The Health Act 2006 when enacted by subordinate regulations in July will prohibit smoking in places that are open to the public and those used as a place of work. It will therefore be illegal for anybody to smoke within most of the hospital buildings as they are both open to the public and used as a place of work; consequently they should remain smoke free at all times. The Trust should of course take all necessary steps to comply with the new law, including posting ?No smoking. It is against the law to smoke on these premises? signs at each entrance to the hospital building.
Premises only have to be smoke free if they are enclosed or substantially enclosed, as defined in section 2 of the Smoke Free (Premises and Enforcement) Regulations 2006 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20063368.htm) Assuming that the hospital grounds are not enclosed within the meaning of the Act, under the new law smoking will be permitted within the hospital grounds.
There are exemptions in section 3 of the Act which specify descriptions of premises that permitted not to be smoke free. Descriptions of such premises include ?any premises where a person has his home, or is living, whether permanently or temporarily (including hotels, care homes?..)? It is probable that the staff accommodation would come within this exemption, as it is private accommodation. There will not be a legal requirement to designate this accommodation smoke free, although it may be advisable to adopt a policy whereby staff can smoke only in their rooms and not in communal areas.
If there is any, the Trust should review existing contractual documentation regarding occupation of staff accommodation. Existing staff might have an implied right to smoke in staff accommodation, but it seems unlikely that they would be able to bring a successful claim for breach of contract or constructive dismissal were smoking to be banned. As ever, early and effective communication, if not true consultation, with staff regarding any proposed ban will be key if disaffection is to be kept to a minimum.

Hannah Pajak
Member - 1 post

hello there,

I am going to put up a wall mounted bin for ash and cigerette buts outside the office, is there any restrictions or legislations that say where it can or cannot be mounted?

Many Thanks

Hannah

Phil Lemon
Member - 50 posts

Rant
Is it not enough that smokers are obliged by the law to smoke outside without coralling them at the side of the road, not providing facilities for them to dispose safely of the waste product and then fining them for littering.

you can not smoke inside, you can not smoke outside a building, you can not smoke in a bus shelter, you can not smoke on a plane, train or automobile....

Does the govenment not want the tax revenue frrom smokers any more?
Our landlord is one of those that USED this legislation to exclude smoking from the entire site, some six months later after complaints from local residents we have negotiated the installation of BUT BINS on the public path ourtside. Even this option is not going to be available or easable for some people.
With regard to site's such as hospitals, which can be large sites, they are now trying to push stressed and sick people further away..... is the next move going to be a 1 mile ban, 5 mile ban or total exclusion for the entire UK.

Philip Jeffs
Member - 299 posts

What an odd arguement Phil ' Does the govenment not want the tax revenue from smokers any more? '.

Are we seriously supposed to encourage people to smoke so that the Government can raise money from their taxation to pay for some of the massive NHS treatment needed for smoking related illnesses?

Chicken and egg??

Stephanie Smith
Member - 2 posts

Can anyone tell me if Employers are still obliged to provide a smoking area?

Phil Lemon
Member - 50 posts

I don't think that there was ever an enforceable 'requirement' to provide a smoking area, or breaks. this is something that is usually negotiated by staff and management (and unions where they are involved) or has evolved over time as a sensible arrangement to place smoking areas away from potential dangers (traffic, combustibles etc.)

Phil Lemon
Member - 50 posts

Philip
OK, I rant occasionally and it usually has something to do with the absurdity of Governmental policy. It's a stress relief thing.
Smioking
Fuel Pricing/taxation
Taxation
Stealth taxes
etc

Stephanie Smith
Member - 2 posts

Hi Phil,

Thanks for your replies - so we have no rights at all then (as amokers)? I seem to recall that way back in the 80's, when all this started to kick off, that Company's could choose to become a non-smoking Company, but had to provide somewhere for the smokers to go. So what has happened is that, as it is now compulsory to be non-smoking in thwe workplace, that this requirement has gone away? I guess no-one said it would be fair!

Don Searle
Member - 19 posts

What looks worse, a fag end on the floor or a dollop of the gum we're encouraged to chew in order to kick the smoking habit? Which is the easier to clean up? Which is the more anti-social habit? So where is the tax that deters people from depositing their oral detritus on our pavements, shoes and carpets?
I think the Treasury has missed a trick...they could have it every way!

Colin England
Member - 55 posts

There has never been any requirement for an employer to provide a smoking area or some where to dispose of smoking materials/waste.

The law allows smoking in the grounds of the hospital but it is open and lawful for the hospital authorities to forbid smoking.

Smoking is not allowed by law in any communal areas of the nurses home. It is open to the owners or agents to ban smoking in the seperate bedrooms. Indeed it is possible that should the hospital allow smoking in the bedrooms they could be sued for causing ill halth by the residue of smoking for the next occupier. a Smoking Ban in the rooms should be put into the Letting Contract and the Employment Contract might have a clause added to say anyone smoking in areas where smoking is forbidden will be subject to disciplinary action.

C P England

Phil Lemon
Member - 50 posts

Keep it simple for me

What is the 'legal standpoint' if a land owner/occupier wants to ban smoking on the site from the position of the member of the public who is using the grounds;
as a patient
visitor
or passing through.

Can you cost effectively enforce this type of blanket ban on large areas such as a Hospital site which presumably covers several acres or more and on what grounds
and (to set cat amongst pigeons)
Is it reasonable to ask these already potentially stressed people to go long distances off the site

Colin England
Member - 55 posts

As a generality, a person entering a site such as a hospital is an "invitee" and the "inviter" is imposing conditions on the invite - namely that you can come into the site to conduct your business but you may not smoke on the site.

Aagin as a generality, no one has a right to use a site for the purposes of "passing through" but the site should exhibit signs to say "no public right of way".

The cost effective way of enforcing the ban is to put up signs and to point out in firm terms the dangers of smoking and to instruct all staff to point out to smokers the ban on smoking.

I do not feel able to comment on the last point (about is it reasonable to ask these already potentially stressed people to go long distances off the site) as it deals with matters beyond my expertise.

Kuang Lim
Member - 34 posts

I think the prisoners human rights are more protected than non-convicts, or is it the other way round?

Will the government just ban tobacco, just like any other substances that are medically proven to be bad for health, so that the debate will end. It is already causing so many divisions amongst the society.

Does the government have the obligation to ban the selling and consuming of an unhealthy substance like tobacco for the health of the nation?

Phil Lemon
Member - 50 posts

If the Government start with banning tobacco this year, perhaps they could go on to ban the use of fossil fuels next yearas they are not only bad for people but bad for the environment

Kuang Lim
Member - 34 posts

I thought they are looking towards nuclear energy!

I think we should live back in the stone age where every thing was natural. But smoking was allowed back then.

Phil Lemon
Member - 50 posts

I always wondered, when entering Watford, it says that it is a Nuclear free zone. How do they separate the electricity that has been supplied by Nuclear power stations and make sure that it does not get in to Watford?

les potter
Member - 23 posts

im a smoker and this is a smokers comment: if all of the non smokers want fresh air why dont they go outside!!! oh you cant do that any longer because we smkoers are out there!!!

but all joking aside i think this smoking ban i great, finally the non smokers will have to start paying added taxes somewhere to the government because of the loss in revenue that the government is clearly losing where people are quitting.

Don Searle
Member - 19 posts

I heartily agree with Les, the smoking ban is a breath of fresh air, even for smokers. It really sorts the men from the boys because, if you're committed to enjoying the weed, you now have to put up with some fairly dreadful conditions to get your fix. If the government had really thought this thing through, they would have annexed Devon and Cornwall and forcibly moved all the remaining smokers there to puff away to their hearts' content and the rest of you can have London and other cities to yourselves...pull in another lungful of diesel fumes, free of charge. And while I'm at it (it is Friday, after all) the standard of spelling and punctuation in some of these threads is verging on the abysmal! That's it, rant over...just popping out for an oily rag!

jim beam
Member - 1 post

In the morning company mail to all staff:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hate to complain but last night I caught one of your staff smoking inside the ‘exit only’ gate [from the premises - no ceiling or roof] . I asked her to come out and went on my way. Half way down the road I turned around to check that she had done what I asked and found that she was still standing I the gateway?

I have had to tell people to smoke, off the premises, numerous times and it still doesn’t seem to make a difference.

I’m not trying to be difficult but it is against the law to smoke on any premises.
[As I'm aware of the Smoking-free Regulations Sec. 2 it's not against the law it's maybe against the landlords regulations!?]

I’m not sure if any of these people realise that they are on camera, but I have had a word with B. about this, as I am now very frustrated, and she has agreed that we will check the cameras every night and any one that is caught smoking will be reported to the police along with footage.

Please can you inform all your staff of this matter as they could be prosecuted next time.

Many thanks

Assistant Centre Manager
F.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I get mad if I hear about police and stupid stuff like this on a Friday morning!!!

Gilly Margrave
Member - 1 post

Tell them to report it to the poice - maybe they'll get done for wasting police time.
G

Clive Davison
Member - 1 post

For years, as a non-smoker if I wanted to visit a pub or restaraunt I have been forced to inhale second hand smoke in a wholly unhealthy atmosphere. Now, with the smoking ban I can at least enjoy my meal without the flavours being tainted by cigar and cigarette smoke. If smokers want to smoke, let them enjoy their "fix" in an area where no-one else is affected.

les potter
Member - 23 posts

well it wont be long before the government bans gas patio heaters, so all of you smoke free loving peeps cant keep warm outside in the fresh air :D and the smoke from our cigarettes will linger longer, because of the lack of hot air outside to dispell the smoke, one has to wonder where the next stealth tax will be coming from to compensate for all of the revenue producing things that are being outlawed.....

Phil Lemon
Member - 50 posts

and they will ban patio heaters in the summer

Jem Sarna
Member - 7 posts

This thread should be about the application of legal requiremrents not our personal feelings on a the bit of legislation, as this detacts from the usefulness of the forum.

If someone wants to express their feelings then they should do so in a post dedicated to this rather that hijacking someone elses thread.

Phil Lemon
Member - 50 posts

Jem

forum
a meeting or medium for an exchange of views

It says nothing in my dictionary about forums being narrow, restrictive or exclusive, i believe that discussions should go forward this means that they will at some point take the odd left turn

go with the flow, this happens sometimes as a discussion develops new threads will pop up and develope a life of their own.

Nobody is trying to hijack anything and you may find something comming out of a thread that is useful which you did not expext

Smile, it puts people off their guard and they never quite know what you are thinking

John Fitzgerald
Member - 3 posts

Look folks smoking is bad for your health and is costing the HSE a fortune every year dealing with the consequences of it. The money saved from this eventually will make up the difference in the tax revenue. Might even shorten the lines of people in A&E.
In Ireland the social interaction between the sexes has gone up because guys are waiting for a good looking girl to go outside to smoke and are following her to chat her up. Always look on the bright side of life and get on with it. You have been killing us non smokers for liong enough...
John Fitz

Kuang Lim
Member - 34 posts

Quitting is a bad attitude.