probationary period

David Price
Member - 80 posts

Err, sorry to state the obvious but Probationary period is just that, a term of employment to assess if a person is right for the position they have been given.

When you say it has been extended for no apparent reason, how would you know it has been extended unless someone within the company had told you it was going to be? During a Probationary period you should always do your best not to take days off, unless holiday, not to be late, or try not to seem anything other than keen to do the job.

You are quite intitled to ask why your probationary period has been extended, as you would have had a letter from the company stating what the period was and when it was due to expire, the company may simply feel that they need more time to assess your suitability for the role, thereby an extention of the probationary period is the best way they can do this.

Joseph Vella
Member - 5 posts

thank you for that. obviously that is correct what is not correct is that there is no reason stated on the letter given to my daughter. At the same time the company she works with made two people redundant. Thank you

Claire Legassick
Member - 2 posts

Hi Joseph,

Is it stated in your daughter's contract of employment that the company reserves the right to extend the probationary period? This would be the normal (and correct) way of reserving the right to extend a new employee's probationary period. I would certainly press the company on the reason for the extension - your daughter has a right to know so that she can act accordingly.

Lorraine Logan
Member - 4 posts

In something related - we have an employee that we wish to dismiss before the end of her probationary period, and we have sufficient time to do this, I am concerned that her time here as a temp ( 6months prior to employment) legally constitutes as time spent at our work and therefore would be counted as her probationary period - can anyone shed a light on this matter please?

Bozena Benton
Member - 53 posts

Joseph - the company should have informed your daughter of the reason for extending her probationary period even if they didn't put that in the letter. It may even be that they verbally explained and either she didn't understand or as some children do chose not to disclose it to you.

An extension is usually given when a new starter doesn't meet the required performance level and this gives them a time to make improvements or change behaviour to the company's expected standards.

Lorraine - you don't say whether her previous time as a temp was immediately prior to her current employment and whether she was employed directly by you or through an agency. Either way it has to be quaestionned as to why her unsuitability was not picked up during this 6 month period and if it was why she was then employed in her current post - was the job she did as a temp so completely different not enabling you to make an assessment?

Colin England
Member - 55 posts

I disagree with the comemnts amde so far on this thread.

If an employer is not satisfied with the worker for some reason (and it must be a jsutifiableand lawful reason) they should dismiss her and state the reason(s) - not extend the probationary period.

If an empoyee worked as temp then surely the employer had ample time to decide if they wanted to employ her full time ont he payroll of the company. It simply will not do to employ her full time ont he payroll then decide that she does not fit in for some reason.

In all these cases the employer must give justifiable and lawful written reasons for the dismissal and must follow the correct procedure. Sometimes I dispair of the human resources departments of quite big firms.

Colin England
Member - 55 posts

A further thought for Joseph.

His daughter should see a lawyer with a view to sueing in the civil courts for breach of contract..

Lorraine Logan
Member - 4 posts

thanks to everyone that responded, she was employed through an agency before we had her on our payroll and it was immediately prior to permanent employment. She was a model employee during her temp placement and couldn't do enough, now she is very difficult, her line manager has changed and she has become quite nasty and volitile towards them. I understand the comment "why employee her"? as a temp period should eliminate doubt but if an employee does what they can for a permanent role who would ever know they are potentially the employee from hell?!?!?

Colin England
Member - 55 posts

So you keep a record of what the employee says and does when you have built up a case you hold a meeting with her and talk about the position in quite formal terms. Then discus it in private with all concerned except the employee. Then if you feel you can justify proceeding - give her a formal written warning with the reasons set out in full and with a time limit during which you expect to see an improvement. If no improvement at the end of the the time limit consider what to do - dismiss or keep her on - depending on how she has responded to the warning. Do NOT extend the warning period. If you decide to dismiss her then set out your reasons in full quoting each and every example of what she has done wrong or what she has said wrong.

It seems to me that there must be a reason why she has changed so much. May that reason lay in the change of line manager?? Did the employee have any reasonable view that she might have been promoted to the post? How was the line manager appointed? It may be worth moving the employee to other duties under another line manager. It may be worth moving the line manager. You should certainly talk to the line manager about how he/she carries out her management duties and how she/he supervises the employee. Maybe the line manager could do with some training in that area???

Anybody disagree with what I have said above???

Helen C
Member - 15 posts

I agree Colin andregardless of how long the probationary period is, an employee does not have the right to be employed for that full period and in most cases an employer will have the right to terminate the contract during the probationary period. However as you clearly stated, an employer must ensure that they follow the Statutory Dismissal and Disciplinary procedure if terminating a contract of employment during the probationary period. Also the probationary period works both ways. The employee may decide to terminate the contract. They have their rights too. The whole reason for the probation period is for the employer and employee to establish if the role is suitable. If the employee comes from an Agency, they will probably have been paid weekly and then change over to being paid monthly. This could have an effect on their work, behaviour etc because they have to work the first month in hand. Waiting a whole month to get paid can be stressful, especially if bills are waiting to be paid.

Emma McAuley
Member - 16 posts

Wow Colin, this seems to be quite an extreme way to manage a situation that could perceivably be resolved quite informally, which surely is always our objective? If you have some minor concerns (timekeeping, conduct, work standards) that you believe could bve rectified by the employee if they made the effort, then extending a probationary period could be exactly the right way to go.

Rather than hastily dimissing an individual whose performance could improve with a gentle nudge in the right direction, the extension lets then know in no uncertain terms that they are not currently up to scratch, whilst giving them the opportunity to make the required improvement.

I think the issue here of not informing an employee of the reason for the probationary period being extended is the one to address. I would advise Jospeh's daughter to put her question in writing to her employer, so that she starts an audit trail of her trying to address any concerns that they may have.

Roger Eaton
Member - 3 posts

I can't see why employers should be so keen to have a probationary period as they only cause unnecessary work & anxiety.

Employers should keep a watchful eye on all new recruits from day 1. If things are not working out take the appropriate steps [be it training / retraining / counselling / warning or dismissal] whether they have been with you for 3 days, 3 weeks or 3 months. Don't wait for an arbitrary date to make a decision but do watch for the magic 12 months!

By all means keep the employee informed as to how they are progressing - but this [as with the employees view of matters] does not need any specific date to work to.

Roger Eaton

Tania Godwin
Member - 6 posts

Is there a minimum/maximum legal requirement for a probationary period? ie: is 9 months acceptable?

Claire Legassick
Member - 2 posts

There is no legal requirement for a probationary period, and therefore no specific time period. As an employer (as Roger cautioned), you need to keep an eye on the service period so that it does not go over one year.

Tania Godwin
Member - 6 posts

EU regs now say 4.8 weeks holiday is a legal requirement as of 1/10/2007, increasing to 5.6 weeks as of 1/4/2009. What happens if the contract says 20 days only, none to be taken during a probationary period of 9 months? Is that legal?

Colin England
Member - 55 posts

In reply to Tania.

A contact of employment which says no holiday to be taken during a long probationary period is not lawful (I distinguish as between Illegal and not lawful) - IMHO.

All employment contracts must now comply with the Directives and statutory orders etc as currently applying. An employee should not sign or agree with anything which appears to remove their rights. On the other hand no employer properly advised would try such a thing.

In reply to the question about the length of a probationary period. There is no law about the length of a probationary period - so far as I know. But it must be "reasonable" or it runs the risk of being rejected by a tribunal as being unreasonable and therefore unenforceable.

Bruce McQuillan
Member - 9 posts

Yet again this is causing complete confusion. Colin and Helen C is it not the case that in reality during a probation period or any other period within the first twelve months of employment has, in fact, no minimum requirements for anything they do provided it is not demonstrably based on discrimination or PIDA etc.

They do not have to follow SDDP if they desire they can sack you at 5am by singing telegram for no reason. They dont even have to give you a dimissal letter.

You cant claim unfair dismissal with less than 12 months service.

Tania Godwin
Member - 6 posts

Excellent replies and sound advice. Many thanks.

James Fairchild
Member - 257 posts

Bruce, don't forget wrongful dismissal, and potential claims based on a discriminatory factor.

Tania Godwin
Member - 6 posts

But as I understand things, probationary period or not, the period of work starts the day one signs the contract, therefore negating any potential tribunal or dismissal action under the period of probation, if that period is for 3 months, 6 months or 9 months. In addition, an employee must also follow the 3-step dismissal procedure under current EU Legislation. If a contract says an Employee can be given one weeks' notice at any given moment, whilst under probation, this is now unenforceable. Unless of course, the 3-step is followed during the course of that week, or an employee has done something very bad. Am I correct in this line or have I completely misunderstood current EU Employment Law?

Tania Godwin
Member - 6 posts

And I meant Employer must follow the 3-step method....

Tania Godwin
Member - 6 posts

Would anyone sign this sort of contract: An American funded NGO with offices globally including the UK. The contract is American derived, the organisation in the contract is part of two bodies, whom form part of the American parent. The contract does not state the parent organisation, but the UK-based one, and sub. However, the person responsible for HR in the UK, also responsible for 7 European offices, apparently does not have any control over HR functions of the parent company. Nearly all of the contract is outside of EU Regulations and one is being asked to sign a contract for the sub-sub-child, whilst it is wholly understood that one works for the American Parent Company. Confused?