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Molly Andrews
Member - 10 posts
This is a marvelous idea and I do so hope it goes ahead so we can celebrate our dedicated armed forces. However, it needs to have an annual theme like a special parade or something like the Royal Tournament just for the day so everyone can join in the celebratin.
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Kaye Johnson
Member - 1 post
Why June? We already have easter in march or april, 2 bank hols in May, holiday periods in july/august, bank holiday in august, wouldnt it make more sense if a new Bank Holiday was to be introduced to have it in October or November? August through to christmas is the longest spell without an official holiday surely?
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Christine Allen
Member - 3 posts
It woulbe be fitting to honour our armed forces past and present in such a way.
This is long overdue.
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Stephen Jones
Member - 19 posts
11th November springs instantly to mind.
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David Price
Member - 80 posts
Hang on a minute, don't we already have Remberance Sunday? And as for the month I feel that it should be in September not fussed which day?
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Jennifer Chapman
Member - 19 posts
We do have Remembrance Sunday to remember those who died or indeed, have been disabled for our country. This is a day of National Mourning. Grief and - RESPECT for lost lives and lost souls.
What we are talking here is - surely - a day of Thanks, Celebration and RESPECT for the Services (current and past) and others involved? A bit different - ie Joyful !
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David Price
Member - 80 posts
Unfortunatly the word RESPECT is one that is slowly dissapearing from the English language. Without sounding like an old fart, most of the people will just see it as another day off.
Shame really that it has come to that, and it's a good job that all those who gave their lives didn't addopt that attitude or where would we be now? Speaking German Perhaps?
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Deleted User
Member - 10 posts
Funny they should propose this in the middle of an illegal war.. I tire of this confuting remembrance with blanket endorsement. I recognise the sacrifices of The Many, but I am not grateful for really, quite a lot of the others. Sorry if that ruffles your feathers, but as an idea for a holiday, it smacks of political opportunism, unless we want to extend it to all those who lose their lives in war..
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Peter Daws
Member - 9 posts
No national holiday is required. However what is required is that the Government (of whatever political persuation) properly fund the services; and it is not only for front line weapons, but also for the fundamental basic - housing, medical care, a decent salary level when finishing recruit training. Units returning from combat zones should also by matter of right march through their local town instead of disembarking in barracks from buses or 4-tonners.
There will always be tensions between the services and the 'locals' - it has been the same since before Waterloo. What the servicemen and women need is the support of Government. The 'covenant' to be upheld.
You will not be surprised to hear that these issues where doing the rounds when i joined the services in 1963. Nothing changes, and Governments continue to do nothing about the basic problems of bad living conditions and overstretch - no votes in it.
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Deleted User
Member - 10 posts
600,000-1.5million dead Iraqis, national assets flogged off in a fire sale, extraodinary rendition, puppet governments, are certainly some causes of 'tension'. Hence the need for a holiday to remind why we should be thankful, because no-one wants to sign up to go through Deepcut for this..
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Geoff Porteous
Member - 26 posts
Tim P your "ungratefullness" is typical of the attitude that prevails amongst those who have had it easy "The world owes mw a living, and i'm here to collect"
Apart from serving overseas in combat zones, away from their families, who do you think put fires out when the firemen were on strike ? Who cleared the streets of thousands of bin bags when the dustmen were on strike, who are the people called out to help you out of your homes in times of flooding etc, the fact that you can read this means that you should thank your teacher, the fact that you are reading it in ENGLISH means you should thank a serviceman.
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Deleted User
Member - 10 posts
You prove my first point - I said I fully recognise the sacrifice of the many who gave their lives in the world wars. Why should I follow you and confuse that with people who are prosecuting a vicious war which has destroyed the lives of millions and which has no legal basis? Should I be grateful for Bloody Sunday too? Extraordinary rendition? People elect to join the army, they get paid for it. I recognise there is individual courage in combat, but I do not need to be grateful for wars which make us all less safe, are turning us into a pariah state in the eyes of many, and which are wholly unjust. I'm grateful the milk turns up on the doorstep every morning, but I am not going to get all misty eyed about Express Dairies. It is never a black and white issue, unless you reduce it to simplistic nationalism and wrap it up in rhetoric about democracy / freedom / [insert excuse here], which the government is all too eager to do because the scrutiny is too uncomfortable.
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Noel George
Member - 11 posts
The word respect has been downgraded to a casual "street" greeting. I believe that those who use it have little understanding of what it means. A truly great shame! There is much talk of RIGHTS but no mention of the RESPONSIBILITIES that are the other side of the same coin.
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Martin Stock
Member - 14 posts
Tim P as a former serviceman of 24 years I take great offence at your attitude!
You quite obviously have no concept of how the services operate, their recruitment or their terms of service. Not only that, you quite obviously have not read the article which this discussion is about.
The proposal is for a veterans day not a celebration of wars or conflicts.
Service men and woman do not make decisions where or when they will be involved in wars, conflicts or civil matters. These are political decisions made by governments, rightly or wrongly, and the service personnel have no option but to follow these orders.
So if you have a problem with governments, of which ever persuasion, fine but leave the Armed Forces alone. As Peter Daws said, and I whole heartedly agree, the Forces have enough problems without the likes of you being ungrateful and kicking them when they're down. You never know one day you may need them!
As for a Veterans Day not a good idea if it involves loads of serving soldiers spending days or even weeks practicing and 'bulling' their kit for parades or tattoos. They've enough on their plates.
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Deleted User
Member - 10 posts
My point is that we cannot separate remembrance from endorsement, as several comments on this thread have shown. I don't accept this assertion I need to be 'grateful to the services' with a big full stop after it. Why do you think people do not have the right to be discriminating in their gratitude if you acknowledge their instructions (and therefore actions) may be right or wrong?
If you elect to join the services, you accept that sometimes you are going to be doing work or being part of something which is at best ethically ambiguous. That's a personal decision you must make with your eyes open and take responsibility for, 'just following orders' is not an excuse. You can always leave if your conscience affects you.
My objection to the present proposal is that it is a political move at a time when our international reputation is worse than it has been for decades. It is an attempt to raise the profile of the services when many people are disgusted by what they are doing (witness the recruitment crisis). In that sense any 'celebration' is in my view in very bad taste.
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Martin Stock
Member - 14 posts
Your point I think is that with the benefit of hindsite it is very easy to critisise. If all personnel in the forces, the police and the security services were of your thinking then there would be no defence of the country at all. How would we have survived the world wars? Würde wir alle, jetzt Deutsch sprechen?
It is very easy to say 'leave if your conscience affects you', but practically it is not that simple. Any attempt to leave other than by the official process would lead to a prison sentence and dishonourable discharge. If a person had put in their notice at the first hint of an invasion of Iraq they would still have taken part in the invasion.
You are the only person I can see in this thread who despises and disrespects our veterans and serving forces. I just hope you remember this; when you need them you can guarentee they'll be there and they won't debate whether it is ethical or not, they'll just do it!
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Deleted User
Member - 10 posts
By jingo(ism).. you're still on this either/or thing then, and good luck to you.
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PAUL MORGAN
Member - 1 post
As an ex soldier I'm also disappointed (but not surprised) at your attitude Tim P, luckily for you many people (civilians too) have made the ultimate sacrifice that allows you to be able to express your point of view; I suspect the approx 10,000 innocent inhabitants of Halabja including children (a town in the north of Iraq gassed by Saddam) would swap with you were they still alive today. A national bank holiday in recognition of the armed forces does not mean that you'd be agreeing with the wars they have fought but merely that you recognise that our very existence depended on them being there/here.
Of course no one is forcing you to do this (again, you can thank the armed forces among others that you have this choice at all) so you could simply just work as normal but dont be surprised if fellow work colleagues view you with contempt afterwards as I certainly would be disappointed in your attitude but hey whats new these days?
Yes all the military are volunteers, yes they know what they sign up for but that is done knowing the covenant goes both ways; how about the government and the UK population fulfilling its side of the bargain? My guess is you find spending just a few pence for a poppy once a year an annoyance, personally if all I have to do is spend a 50p/£1/£5 for the rest of my life as payment for living in the free world then I'm more than happy to do that.
How lucky you are that there is no more national service as I'm guessing that would prove far too much effort for yourself, you'd have to start giving something back with no personal gain so that would not do would it?!
I've said enough and will let you get back to feathering your own nest, sleep safe.
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Noel George
Member - 11 posts
Sorry folks, you lose the plot. Majority decision carries the day. You cannot opt in or out of this world and just be associated with the bits you like. Neither can you turn the clock back. It is in poor taste to make reference to the Germans in relationship to things that are history. The truth is that unfortunately many young people join up because they don`t have a job and they think of the training they will get. When you draw their attention to the fact that these are the ARMED forces they don`t understand what you mean.
Lets just remember that we have less public holidays that others in Europe and lets have more. I do think that veterans day is not a bad idea. Concentrate on fights that we could win. P.S I am ex-forces.
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