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Toilet Requirements




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13 Jun 2007 11:03AM

Christopher Allen
Member - 2 posts

I am in the process of opening a Sushi (cold food only) Take Away Conveyor Bar.

An Architect contact of mine contacted the local Building Control department yesterday in relation to necessary toilet requirements for this property. There is now some confusion that we are looking to clear up ASAP.

This unit carries A1 consents (which the council has approved for use and hence operated in the same guise as a sandwich bar) and was completely refurbished by a Cornish Pasty Franchise unit less than 12 months ago.

At this time the unit was completed with a single, non disabled, staff only toilet. They have now vacated due to a buy-out deal from another Franchise operation that also operate in the Reading area.

As a result of yesterdays conversation it was believed that not only would we need a staff toilet (which we currently have), we would also need a fully disabled customer toilet. However, my contact felt that the Building Control officer lacked the knowledge to fully comment here as he repeatedly left the phone to check paper based guidlines and regs.

This is where our confusion lies. We do not believe that with the nature of this venture being a sandwich bar type setup, where customers eat in or out as opposed to a full Restaurant with covers into the hundreds, that we will need to offer customer facilities.

Having visited and seen several other similar operations in the same area, it is common place for 24+ eat in seats to be offered without any provision for any customer toilet facilities.

We will operate a large emphasis on take away with a small conveyor bar for customers to sit and eat dishes from (for approx 20 persons). We will be employing 4 persons.

We are not planning to change the layout of the premises to that of what the Cornish Pasty operators have left. The unit is approximate 20m x 4m. Currently the front of the premises houses the take away area and seating for eat in customers. The middle area is completely outfitted for kitchen use. The rear of the premises houses a large walk in fridge unit and the single, non disabled, staff toilet.

Currently there is no provision for us to be able to offer customer toilets without undertaking large scale refurbishments to the premises. Further to this, the premises does not currently offer any amount of floor space to cover the necessary requirements for a disabled toilet. This would require us to undertake long term, extensive and hugely costly alterations. Being a start up we are trying to minimise initial outlay.

From checking the current legislation we believe that we may not be required to offer these further customer facilities. However, I believe it is very important to work closely with the local council to get things going smoothly from the start.

Can anyone help us here?

Thanks to all for your time and help with this matter.

Chris



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18 Jun 2007 4:04PM

Gillian Nightingale
Member - 175 posts

The Disability Discrimination Act says is that if services or employment opportunities are being provided, they must be provided on an equal, non-discriminating basis to disabled and non-disabled customers or employees. Facilities or opportunities for disabled people must not be provided to a lesser standard than that being offered to non-disabled people, or be offered in a way which is impossible or unreasonably difficult for the disabled person to use.

In your particular situation, you need to consider your duties to both employees and customers.

Under Part II of the DDA 1995 an employer has a duty to ensure that any disabled members of staff have employment opportunities that are equal to those enjoyed by non-disabled employees. However, many of the duties imposed by Part 2 are seen as ?reactive? duties because, until you actually employ a disabled person and established what their needs are, how can you provide them? Therefore, if you currently do not have any disabled employees, you do not technically need to consider making provision for disabled employees. Bear in mind however that you cannot use your lack of disabled staff facilities to influence any decision on whether to take on new staff with a disability ? this would lead you wide open to a potentially expensive claim, which is why the majority of employers are considering and implementing provision for disabled toilet facilities. Financial support for any adjustments to your building to meet staff needs may be available through the Access to Work scheme run by Job Centre Plus.

In terms of providing disabled toilet access to customers, Part III of the DDA relates to services to the public and is seen as an ?anticipatory? duty. Therefore, the service provider should take all reasonable steps to anticipate what access requirements members of the public may have when using their service, and ensure that the management practices, policies and procedures, and the physical provision of the environment itself, do not unreasonably discriminate against disable people. However, it could be argued that toilet facilities are not an intrinsic part of the service you provide (although perhaps they might be a convenient addition to the service you offer?) Therefore, if you don?t allow access to the staff toilet to any customers, you don?t need to provide disabled facilities for this reason. But if you let any customers use your staff toilets, and these are not suitable for disabled users, you would leave yourself open to a claim under the DDA.



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18 Jun 2007 4:10PM

Christopher Allen
Member - 2 posts

Thanks - that's fantastic



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23 Jun 2008 12:53PM

David Dawson
Member - 1 post

Hi. I am considering opening a Café / Restaurant and would welcome some clarification on the law, please.
1). I presume I am correct in thinking that I must offer disabled toilet facilities?
2). What rules govern the siteing of these toilets in a Restaurant environment?
3). Can they be directly off the main body of the restaurant or must there be additional and seperate space between the two rooms?
4). Is funding available to assist in changing the layout and installation?
5). Is any funding available to help provide Fire Escapes if required.



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31 Jul 2008 4:33PM

susan beattie
Member - 1 post

hi, i am building a office with disabled toilet on the side. the toilet is already up to spec. however i am now unclear whether i need disabled spec to cover the office also. please help.



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1 Aug 2008 9:30AM

janet burton
Member - 64 posts

As I understand it, if you offer seating space for customers to eat or drink on the premises, you must also offer toilets, and if you offer toilets you must offer disabled accessible toilets.
I know of some cafes where they are in a shopping centre and contribute to the upkeep of the shopping centre loos and therefore do offer the facility, if not actually on their own premises; but otherwise I thought it was a fixed legal difference between a takeaway-only and an eat-in cafe.



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1 Aug 2008 9:40AM

janet burton
Member - 64 posts

Re the office - yes you need to have disabled access. Why would you want disabled-accessible toilets in a non-accessible office anyway? By requiring the disabled-accessible toilet, the law is re-enforcing the need for the building to be accessible.



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1 Aug 2008 10:24AM

Carl Manning
Member - 17 posts

DDA and Part M don't match up seamlessly. The intepretations here are evidence of the ongoing confusion.

I recently had request to convert one area to disabled access toilets as 'it was law'. The area in question actually had a member of staff who is registered as disabled,so one might think there is no case to answer, 'do it'. However, the individual's specific disability assessment indicated that there was no need to carry out the works requested as the individual could use the existing facilities without any discomfort. If the situation changes then we would look to carry out remedial works in quick time, as indeed we did recently for a member of staff who moved workplaces on site.

As with all elements of 'law' there are plenty of 'experts' willing to tell you how you do not comply with this reg that reg and every other reg; that is until you actually question them, then their advice becomes more wooly than a herdwick in winter!

Regardless of the legal aspects, it might make sense during any refurbishment works to build in facilities that future proof the building, it will undoubtedly save moeny in the long run, but more importantly it mioght well take away the unwitting decision not to employ someone on the grounds of 'it'll cost us to fix'-as alluded to elsewhere a situation to be avoided. After all don't you want the best persopn for the job, not the best looking, youngest, smartest? all forms of discrimination in them selves, think smart work smarter?



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17 Sep 2008 12:40PM

Nick Franchino
Member - 1 post

I am currently taking over the lease for a restaurant/cafe'. It is a small premises with toilets for customers upstairs. Is there a legal need to provide disabled toilets on the ground floor? Realistically the premises is not big enough to have toilets on the ground floor and still have seating/display counters.





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