Should there be a Maximum Workplace Temperature?

Anonymous

As someone who works in an air conditioned office I can understand why the TUC is asking the Government to introduce an upper limited. If all work areas could be required to introduce air conditioning it would create a lot of business for the company that I work for.
But lets take in onto a responsible level not all building were designed for a climate that changes so rapidly. Some of the newer buildings are designed to allow natural air conditioning but vast majorities are built to create maximum return on the space provided.
And are not even insulated against heat loss so when the summer weather comes, they turn into ovens is it therefor right to ask people to possibly damage their health and work in such places.
I thought we had done away with sweet shops.

Anonymous

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A temperature that is reasonable for one is not reasonable for another, we are all individuals.
To me 30 degrees is very warm and uncomfortable but to others it is a nice day.
Some people have air conditioning. In our 30-40 year old building only managers have air conditioning. The rest of us have windows and fans.
Its a difficult issue this and one that there are a lot of strong views on.

Anonymous

It's not just temperature, it's the whole environmnet that should be considered. What about humidity, shade and draughts, for example.
I think the important thing for an employer is to show that you care. Each situation is different, and allowing breaks or providing drinks can be just as effective as maintaining the temperature at a constant 29.9F
There will always be a need for a law which protects against the worst case, but having a finite scale is no different to the "flat rate" sentencing proposals for mobile phone theft, which takes no account of the other circumstances.

Anonymous

Difficult to apply to outside workers. Better to try and aleviate the effects with breaks, drinks etc.

Anonymous

There are two main issues here:
1) Is it detrimental to the health safety and welfare of employees for them to work in very hot conditions?
2) If it is detrimental what should employers be required to do about it?
It is known that very cold conditions are inconsisitent with the welfare of employees and in some cases can potentially cause acute ill-health episodes, e.g. hypothermia.
It is consistent with experience and common sense that very hot conditions are not conducive to good welfare and can cause heat stroke and increase pressure that may lead to stress.
Therefore very hot conditions, just like very cold conditions should, according to existing legislation, be controlled if reasonably practicable.
Reasonably practical health and safety compliance in not a matter of what employers can or cannot afford but has to do with: -
a) How serious is the risk of injury or ill-health?
b) Is it physically possible to take control measures?
c) Will the control measures be effective in reducing the risk?
d) Having considered the foregoing is the cost of taking the measures justifiable in terms of the benefit.
In my view there must be a maximum temperature at which it is either unsafe, unhealthy or detrimental to welfare to continue working just as there is a minimum temperature.
The Government should grasp the nettle and legislate, and while they are doing so they could make the minimum temperature mandatory as well.

Anonymous

Without a doubt there should be a maximum evenly distributed permissable temperature within the office environment! and its not just manual work- for the brain to be efficient it needs to be kept at a reasonable temperature not forgetting the need for sleep, control over stress, morale etc! Breaks are great but do architects have time to take them?

Of course ice cream breaks are always welcome and always a good recipe for success!

Anonymous

Wow

Anonymous

Siesta? In hot countries they avoid the heat, they stop work when it is hottest, find a cool place and wait it out. Or they ensure that they are comfortable. Why in the UK is it 'mad dogs and englishmen going out in the midday sun'? There seems to be an attitude that we should all enjoy it while it lasts. Not likely, I can only enjoy comfort certainly not discomfort. Any reasonable employer should ensure that their staff are comfortable in there place of work, if not out of decency then out of concern for productivity.

Anonymous

I left work early yesterday due to exessive heat i work in a modern non-airconditioned environment in central London. The heat in the building was unbearable (even with the windows open). To my surprise non of my superiors were in the office - how convienient!

Anonymous

It would seem that our campaign here at the TUC to have a top workplace temperature is having the right effect given the range of comment. The TUC sees the top temperature of 30 degrees as something an employee can take to their boss to say that the law is being broken and ask for something to be done about it. But it is more than just about when the heat hits 30 degrees plus. Our campaign is also about getting employers to take thermal comfort seriously both in terms of health and safety and in terms of business costs, which Dennis Draper mentions. Robert Randal has spelt out very succinctly the approach that employers should be taking. Lets be proactive about thermal comfort and not wait until, in the words of Cole Porter, the thermometer begins to pop. And Clare if you can get a motion passed at this year's TUC conference on ice cream for all you'll have a number one supporter here!

Anonymous

Yesterday afternoon (Wednesday) I got to the point where I just could not think straight. I am supposed to be making decisions in a competent manner so to not open my employers' up to claims for negligence and put my own career on the line despite what Will and Peter think. I have a desk fan which simply recirculates the hot air. A maximum temperature would be wonderful but I would argue that an early morning start and an early afternoon finish would be more beneficial to everyone.

Anonymous

Additional comment for Darren.
If you open windows then the air-conditioning will fail to be efffective.

Anonymous

If the predictions of global warming are correct, then everyone had better get used to the hot summers. Installing air con will only add to the global warming. Either that or just do as the Americans do and bury your head in the sand!

Anonymous

What's all this talk of max. 30 deg C? Good design principles work around 19-23 deg. So why settle for a max temp which to most people is likely to be unpleasant after a relatively short space of time?
As for siestas, a very large no. of us commute for up to 2-3 hrs total each day - and the temperatures there are another issue! - so whilst early starts a la Continent might be OK, late finishes at say 7-8pm could simply extend the overall "work day" to around 15-16 hrs!! Maybe we should issue our families with Identikit pics of us so they don't think we're burglars when we come home?!?!

Anonymous

You cannot legislate for the weather.
If an individual is too hot they must do something about it themselves to make their conditions bearable - like, take breaks, plenty of drinks, stay away if they must ; but dont blame the employer. It's not the employer's fault the temperatures are rising.
The government could do more to minimise the production of greenhouse gases to prevent temperatures rising in the first place.

Anonymous

Working in a Government building with NO air conditioning is unreasonable. A law should be bought in for a MAX temp.

Anonymous

As health and safety rep and a manager I am being constantly bombarded with requests for help. No air-conditioning, windows that cannot be opened properly due to security shutters and warped frames as well as an indifferent management board. Even the fridges cannot manage a temperature lower than 10.4C. Yes we are advised to drink plenty and have ice cream however the staff have to pay for these and lower grade staff and their managers are admonished for taking excessive breaks to go and buy them. The water-coolers often run out of water so back to luke warm tap water that tastes disgusting. Even I succumbed and had to go home sick with heat exhaustion the office was 38C and 37 humidity with little in the way of relief. Again it is obvious that quite a few higher grade managers do not make it in to work on the hotest of days or leave early when the lower grades have to stay behing to man phones and public counters.Now the good news our department recognises that temperatures over 26C are uncomfortable to work in. But nothing changes. Maybe this answers the reason that the Civil Service has excessive sickness levels or that the staff make mistakes. I hope that the TUC win the day and at last I will have a legal right to argue that something is done. At present my only argument is duty of care. To which reasonable and practible is the reply.
All employers must remember however the dog that is beaten eventually bites back.

Anonymous

VERY DIFFICULT TO IMPLEMENT, WHEN TEMPERATURE COULD VARY INTERNALLY SIMPLY BY MOVING A FEW FEET.
AS LONG AS WE EXERCISE A LITTLE COMMON SENSE, AND PROVIDE AS MANY COOLING AIDS AS IS PRACTICALLY POSSIBLE, WE ARE EXERCISING THE DUTY OF CARE THAT IS EXPECTED OF US. REMEMBER TOO THAT THE CURRENT PERIOD OF HOT WEATHER IS THE EXCEPTION RATHER THAN THE RULE. TAKE AMPLE BREAKS, DRINK LOTS OF COOL FLUIDS AND DON'T EXPEND EXCESS ENERGY. IF WE DO HAVE A MAXIMUM WORKING TEMPERATURE, THERE WILL HAVE TO BE A SLIDING SCALE FOR EACH WORKING TASK.
PERSONALLY I SEE 30 DEGREES CELSIUS AS THE MOST LIKELY MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE.

Anonymous

I think that it is about time that the Government took this issue seriously and introduced a maximum temperature. It is currently ironic that we can enforce in workplaces far cooler than the complaints we receive from businesses.

Anonymous

Maximum temperature? Yes, but what about the minimum? We are in an airconditioned office, half of us are sitting with nice, but unseasonal pashminas at their desk, freeze and suffer from dry coughs and colds, run to the toilet every 10 minutes because the people who can't bear temperatures above 20 degress celsius have the key to the aircon. and don't like it if anybody complains about being too cold. they understand too hot, though, meaning 20 degrees and above.
I don't believe in the old productivity argument, because I have never seen a convincing study and just repeating a statement doesn't make it true. No mentioning though of all the cold related illnesses. Why is it that something natural as a little bit sweat in summer (and in our office it wouldn't be more than that) is an absolute no go? Why not compromise at 23 degrees, but have it at about 18?
Will never understand.

Anonymous

Cold people can get warm by putting more clothes on, hot people cannot get cool very easily. I mean who would want to see hot people walking around in underpants?
I believe in productivity dropping when its hot. You feel it yourself. When your hot, you always spend time complaining about the heat, not being able to think etc etc. Compared to a cooler day, such as today where you dont feel tired and exhausted.

Anonymous

One variable affecting temperature levels is the subject building's occupation density. Unfortunatley, I have been unable to find any legislative floorspace/ person minimum standards, or "industry accepted" codes, in respect of administrative offices. Can anyone provide summary guidance, in an attempt to tackle the heat issue in reverse - on those occasions were densities levels may be being exceeded. I accept in advance that this may be a naive request.

Anonymous

We have a great problem with excessive temperatures in ward areas. It not only affects staff it also affects patients. Setting an upper limt is not the answer. The answer is to enforce the existing legislation on ventilation. The areas that I have visited the temperature has been high but could have been easily reduced with better ventilation.

Anonymous

If the outside temperature is 37ºand the office temperature is 34º I would much rather be in the office!
Do all these people go home to sit in a higher temperature or have they all got A/C?
A minimum temp will not work. There are higher heat generating areas in every standard office due to equipment etc and the temperature will naturally fluctuate. Any standard designed AC system which complies with the BCO requirements will struggle with temps + 30º.
The equation of cost + space + global warming vs comfort for 2 weeks of the year is a no brainer.

Anonymous

Sue in the city - air conditioning is not necessary to achieve a cool working environment and as has been pointed out already only adds to global warming. I do agree that a maximum temperature should be mandatory, but achieving it should not be at the cost of the planet.

Anonymous

You are obviousley going soft and too politically correct in the UK.

Our Construction staff regularly work in temperatures of +45C on 12 hour shifts with minimal tea breaks. Yes they get pretty hot and sweaty, but it's better than being a beggar back in their homeland. Naturally they have virtually silch employment rights in the workplace.
If you haven't guessed this is from modern Dubai, which is about to host the World Bank Conference 2003, describing itself as at,"the crossroads of the New Global Economy".

Anonymous

I think it is inconsistent not to have a legal maximum. In some parts of some offices the temperature can rise to an uncomfortable level even in cooler weather. It makes it very difficult for someone like me (Admin Manager)to respond to my staff if there is not a benchmark to work to. It also makes it easier for bad employers to ignore the situation and avoid doing abything about it.

Anonymous

I work in a hospital catering dept, the area I am in is not the cooking area but the area where we plate up patients meals using a trayed system and also wash the dishes using a large flight type dishwasher. The temp we have even now its cooler are still about 30 deg c, during the hot weather we got up to 37 deg c, but its not just about what temp it is, even at 30 deg c we are normally soaked with sweat within 30 mins of starting work, sweat rash is very common in the dept. A combination of the high temp and sauna like enviroment just does nothing to make you comfortable. Last year we asked the Health and safety exective to visit, the did and made some recomendations, which only 1 was ever done, now they made a second visit and things seem to be changing, we are told some air con will be fitted by march 04 and other work is in progress, a new dishwasher is also ordered, one which has good insulating properties, and other stuff around the dept to help the enviroment.
So yes there need to be new laws with a max temp, sooner the better !
The moral of my story is, get your Union involved, get in touch with the health and safety execitive, dont let it drop every winter when its cooler! We did that for years, each year starting again when it got hotter. Keep at your managers complaining about the temp. In time they will be forced to do something about it even if the are forced by the HSE.

Anonymous

The TUC is reporting that staff at the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary staged a walk-out on 12 August after claiming it was too hot inside for them to work. Around 40 workers took part in the demonstration.

Anonymous

I've been away on leave, so I'm happy to have missed a couple of hot, stuffy weeks working in London. Reading through the comments, however, I was shocked by the contribution from Darren MRICS (7 August). In just 3 lines there are 3/4 grammatical errors (depending on how pedantic one wishes to be) and 2 spelling errors. If you really are a chartered surveyor, Darren, you should be aware that your professional institution expects much higher stadards than that!

Anonymous

Tut Tut Brian, people in glass houses......

'Standards' comes complete with an 'n' in my dictionary!

Anonymous

My office is a non airconditioned workplace where we have ceiling fans and desk fans and several computers and VDUs to add to the heat count. Our windows are able to be opened. The average temperature on a january day is 25 degrees C and for a warm day well in excess of 27 degrees. It has been known in our office for staff to return after a weekend and find the office temperature is over 90F!

half of the office want the place to be cooler and the other half complain about draughts when windows are opened!!

The maximum temperatures proposed here are far too high for an office! The brain stops being as allert once a certain temperature is exceeded or falls below - I think around 21 degrees C. Volvo car company did some research on this some years ago in terma of driver allertness.

Anonymous

The HSAW 1974 is clear, the employer is to provide a Healthy and Safe working environment, if people are feeling ill, nausious, loss of concentration, that would cause them harm, working with machinery, moving about the business causing trips due to lethergy then the place is unsafe

Temperatures apply to all seasons, and hey are these seasons irregular or do they come around on an annual frequency so wheres the excuses for not planning to solve the issues based on historical knowledge and experience

by having contracts inplace to bring in mobile units in the spring summer and used when appropriate or heaters if the property has a history of inadequate heating

Anonymous

Just for the record, the minimum temperature limit is 15.5degC after an initial period (presumably to allow the heating to kick in) but this does not apply to all buildings (notably schools).

There is a major problem on thermal comfort in that it is not possible to please all of the people all of the time. Both fashion and individual characteristics mean that our preferred temperature varies by several degrees.

There is legislation in place to prevent buildings being heated over a certain limit, to reduce energy use, but it is widely ignored, and in fact a significant proportion of the population will find this temperature too cold for comfort. However, there are no formal upper limits.

Guide Volume A (Environmental design) published by the Chartered Institution of Building Services Engineers includes a lot of this information along with recommended temperature ranges for various activities and spaces.

There has been one mention of global warming. Modelling based in information from the Henley Centre is predicting a several degree rise in peak temperatures over the next 20 years. Existing buildings will have to cope with this. New buildings should now be designed to take this into account.

Carbon emissions are a big issue here. Air conditioning is a significant source of carbon emissions and other ways need to be found wherever possible. This is not easy for new buildings, but general use of AC would certainly scupper the government's efforts to meet EU Kyoto commitments. Therefore there will be strong pressure not to introduce regulations which increase use of AC.

The secret is to keep the heat out of the building in the frist place. Solar window films or reglazing with low=e double or triple glazing can help; internal blinds do nothing as the heat is already inside. Fans also do little but move the heat around. They actually add heat to the space (all electricity coming into the building ends up as heat). More efficienct lighting can help by reducing the heat output from the lamps. There are many other things that can be done but most require capital expenditure. Even ensuring that photocopiers are in well ventilated spaces rather than in densely occupied offices can help.

Anonymous

I think that the law should definitely change in regards to temperature in the office. In my office runs two big radiator heat pipes, that feed the radiators throughout the building, and a small pokey window that gives little ventalation, as a result I have to sweat it out.

This law needs to be amended now!

Philip Jeffs
Member - 303 posts

There is an easy way to establish the maximum working temperature in a building.

Wait until the point in the day when directors and senior managers decide to 'work from home'. If its too hot for them to stick it out its also too hot for the rest of the staff!

Anonymous

5.30pm and still 31.5 degrees in the office after 9 hours of torment in front of my PC. Todays high was around 32 and it is not even August. Which bright spark decided to make this building largely out of Glass?! I can't be bothered to make phone calls or snap myself into gear on some fairly important bits and pieces. It's been like this all day. My arms are sticking to my desk as does my paperwork when I lean on it. Everyone else looks slow as well, drained and equally perturbed. The atmosphere is slurred and lethargic. The promise of aircon is clearly an empty one. This is clear from the noise coming from my Directors general direction as the minion charged with obtaining quotes leaves his office. Must go now for fear of short-circuiting my keyboard as beads of sweat from my brow drip onto it - and I'm not even that fat!

Anonymous

In one of my buildings that I look after, the Tenants were complaining that the Air Con was to cold, (21.9 degrees)some guys had jackets on..

Anonymous

What I don't understand is why there seems to be such reluctance to set an upper limit.

Surely health and welfare of employees is more important than insisting individuals work in sweltering conditions where they are not being productive, are not happy, and are far more likely to be dozing at their desk than acheiving the results expected of them. In this day and age there really needs to be a more flexible approach to working that will suit everyone.

By setting an upper limit is will not only aid us poor FM's in the battle against the 'too hot/too cold' syndrome but also it will give guidance and struture to something that, at the moment, is a woolly subject with no clear definition. It really does need some clarity so that everyone can put measures in place to ensure that working in a hot environment can be a controlled event not something that everyone talks about in horror!

Anonymous

I dare say that some of the reasons for the non-existence of an upper limit are to do with the 'exceptions' factor. Do you pass a bill that only covers offices, or should you roll it out to a broader spectrum of working environments? Define 'office' environment. Will a human rights issue emerge and spiral out of control as a result? This could affect pubs and all public places. How much will such a bill cost to enforce? Does there need to be a subsidy available for very small businesses who could not afford the outlay and increased operating costs? How do you administrate that?

Our organisation turns over 250m a year and employs over 150 people, but is run as a one man band. Our MD is a very expensive accounts clerk (although also an exceptional entrepreneur). Our focus on costs as a profit led company is indoctrinated into everyone controlling a budget and we all benefit financially from it. However, unlike my MD and his Directors, my wage is a wage and the bonus is indeed a bonus. I get paid and I go home. I want aircon because it is not my own business and I do not care about it more than my own comfort levels.

Anonymous

It is in the company's best interest to make somewhere cold. It can be quite impossible to feel sleepy in a cold environment, where as when it gets hot and sticky, the heat makes the workers unproductive. I cannot see that anyone would not think that a cooler office will be more productive than a hot one.

Anonymous

Heat in our offices needs a radical rethink. Simply piling in ac will add to global warming- using energy to remove energy is madness- we need to rethink our working patterns along with our entire environment. We have to adapt to the environment not the other way around.

There is a serious problem which the government and relevant proffesions need to start working on together.

Anonymous

The temperature in my office continues it's steady upward climb and today reached a maximum of 29 degrees celsius.

Outside, it is also hot, Possibly hotter.

All day I have staff approaching me asking me what will be done, blind to the fact that asking for £40,000 worth of AC is not going to happen overnight.

The bit that baffles me is the number of people that whine about the heat all day at work, then go home and sit in the garden thiking it's so much nicer than the office .. bizarre.

Wonder what would happen if it rained in offices???

gareth Jeffery
Member - 1 post

I dont mind the heat, living in Manchester it makes a nice change! but when the temerature is over 33 degrees celsius, it gets a little uncomfortable. We had air con installed a few weeks ago, but it doesn't work. the only person who gets any benefit is the person who sits right underneath it!

All the managers have desk fans, but we are not allowed them as the create a strange sound while you are on the phone.

As for water coolers, we have one. Only upper management are allowed to use this. We have a freezer, which again can only be used by upper management.

Anonymous

I've read a lot of comments on this forum. It is 29 degrees in our office today and it is unbearable at times, and i have to go for breaks or i end up feeling ill. I think that this affects productivity and also i have to get straight in the shower when i get home.

But what annoys me is when people say that when you go home you sit in the sun and it is hotter. YES this is true but there is a number of BIG differences between that and the office which is: you are relaxing, not working, clean fresh air, breeze, and a nice cold drink. I thought this was obvouis but apparently not. Due to how our body works we would still feel cooler outside with a breeze than in the office. Maybe some people should go back to school!!!!!.

Anonymous

No one has commented on the other effect of very hot weather - lack of sleep because it is too hot to get to sleep or you keep waking up.

This will add to any detrimental effects from working in an overly hot workplace. Tiredness and lethergy are not the best preparation for tasks that involve thought and concentration.

Or maybe all those who complain about the lack of adequate temperature control in their workplace have some magical method of temperature control at home.

Anonymous

I have just been searching for a maximum temperature and hence this comments page!

I am sat at my desk in 33 degrees celsius and the ironic thing is I have an air conditioning unit which my employer has just bought... but has now told me I cannot shut my office door - kind of defeats the object really.

Legislation is needed to make management listen! UK summers are getting hotter and old building are not able to cope with this. Hot employees = demotivated, under performing and irritable.

Water and icecream is nice - but just not enough.

Anonymous

To hot to make legible sentance!

Anonymous

Employers might like to consider the effect of heat on thier office workers. My office has two external glass walls and no a/c. I have two fans going and the window open (as much as is possible, which isn't much) the temperature has reached 32C in here today. I can hardly think straight let alone work in a productive manner. The combined sound of the fans is distracting, but the heat is the realy problem. I'm reduced to spraying myself with water from a plant spray to keep cool. . .

a/c should be seen as an investment in productivity not a luxury. Over the last few years we have had several hot summers an yet the country as a whole seems surprised by the heat every year!

And to the chap who queried the sense of whinging office workers who go home to sit in their gardens; have you no notion of context? I'm not fussed by the heat if I don't have to do anything and I love going to hot countries on holiday, but that is quite a different matter to trying to work in stuffy overheated conditions!

Totally agree with the lady who says that "Tiredness and lethergy are not the best preparation for tasks that involve thought and concentration."

Anonymous

There should be a maximum temp law, our air con packed up, I work with around 100 photocopiers/printers and computers all day long, and the heat they produce in our ground floor office is unbearable, especially in the hot weather, temps must rise to at least 40 degrees c, all the other floors are nice and cool like fridges, but us techies downstairs have to suffer from heat stroke, tiredness, and illness due to lack of ventilation.

I think the government should do something about a max temp, as it just isn't on...

Anyways that's my opinion....

Thanks

Anonymous

I work as a bus driver, and whilst the minimum temperature applies to office staff, we freeze in the winter with insufficient heating in the bus cabs, and bake in the summer, as the only way to cool the cab is to open the cab window. Security screens on the cabs just add to the problem, but the alternative to this is assault from passengers. Apparently, because we do not work in an office/factory environment, the factories act does not apply to us, yet we are expected to drive around for up to five and a half hours a day, carrying a cargo of people, coping with the drivers that 'have to get in front of the bus', and no-one cares about whether we are too cold, too hot, or on the point of dehydration. Try doing this for a living!

Anonymous

Funny how this thread 'dried up' at the end of August.

Try working in a Temprature of 30oC in November!!!

Anonymous

I AM working in a temperature above 30°C in November, and I just work in an office that DOES have air-conditioning. We just can't use the aircon for the whinging of "It's too cold and draughty, turn it off!" Dare I say it, but the fault with high temperatures in our offices are predominently down to the female side, with one or two exceptions. Why do people turn up to work in the winter in a thick coat, take it off to reveal skimpy, thin garments, and then at the first opportunity when no-one is looking, ram the heating onto full power?

It is far easier and cheaper to put on a jumper, than it is to cool a building with modern air-conditioning. For the sake of putting on an extra layer of clothing, I personally believe that a maximum office temperature should be set at 26°C, and if this isn't warm enough for someone, then they should consider purchasing more clothes!

Anonymous

I am cold unless the temperature is about 23/24 on the thermometer and I am rarely uncomfortable in the summer heat of southern Spain. I have to wear layer upon layer of clothing, a blanket around my legs and a scarf around my neck, frequently, in winter at work. My hands are often too cold to type. Others in the office want the windows and doors open and turn all the radiators off. In summer, when there is an opportunity to be warm for a change eveyone wants to cool it down so I am still cold. It makes me miserable and I don't want to move or do anything. The majority of comments here are from those people that can't take a warm spring day in England. The people I work with are the same. I am sick of being the one that doesn't get needs met whilst everyone else does. It isn't fair on me.

Trevor Muddimer
Member - 45 posts

After a number of years in Facilities I have learnt that it is impossible to keep all people comfortable. What is possible is adjusting what one has to improve their lot.

Where a/c is in place, for sedentary workers, a setting around 23deg C seems acceptable, but draughts have to be minimised. Air flows are critical to peoples perception of the temperature.

Here, the direction of air flows is checked for every occupant sometimes taking three trips through an office making fine adjustments and checking every employee. Clearly this can't be done often, but as mentioned above, if care is shown then people do understand that all is being done that can be done.

Air Con is not the final answer, it does bring comfort and maintains efficiency, but at a cost to the environment - energy generation releases CO2 which causes climate change.

Air Con also takes humidity out of the recycled air - as it passes over the cooling coils and moiture condenses out of the air. Hence unless humidity is added, one gets complaints of dry eyes and headaches.

Fresh air injection is used of course but as pointed out above, when it is hot outside, incomming air remains hot.

If its votes that count, I suggest 30degC is the lowest one could expect.

We may have to adapt our work periods as the climate warms and indeed as the congestion on roads grows. This forces us to adapt start and end times but thats another thread maybe?

Anonymous

We have just had air con put in our office, and I feel it's the wort thing we could have done, One unit was installed directly above and over my head, the Temperature is not so much the problem it?s the down draft from the unit. Each time the unit has to react to keep the Temp constant it belts out cold air and it falls directly on to me and is very uncomfortable, others in the office are fine as they are not in direct line of the other unit, wot?s wrong with a window you can open and a fan.

Anonymous

I work in a hospital where there are severely disabled patients many of whom are unable to self-regulate their body temperature and only receive fans in order to cool them down. Fans just move hot air around. Most staff have intensive manual handling tasks throughout the day and because of the risk of communicable diseases (such as MRSA) plastic aprons have to be worn. This just makes everyone hotter and sweatier.

A maximum working temperature is a good idea, but in this sort of environment we cannot just up sticks and go home if it gets too hot. What about the patients? What needs to be done is a max temp plus strict guidelines on effective measures (preferably eco friendly) that employers must adhere to in order to reduce working temperatures and perhaps a financial penalty system as a deterrant to those who think the rules don't apply.

Anonymous

I have staff that complain continually about then tempreture of the office. I have told them that due to the building being designed with periffial heating the staff sitting towards the centre of the office do not benefit as much as the people next to the walls. What can you do? As most FMs would say "You cant please all the people all the time". AC units are switched on in the summer months abnd staff then open windows. What is to be done with these people?

Anonymous

well its 35 c here at Angel centre no aircon and this a major company I am working for (BT) what hope others. We need a legal maximium temperature and we need it now!

Anonymous

The Government need to take charge on this matter and set a maximum temperature. We are apparently in for a bit of a heatwave this year and I am required to work in soarin temperatures on the third floor of a newly but poorly designed warehouse. The work is of a physical nature and we are required to lift boxes, be on foot for the shift.

The floor that i am asked to work on is rather hot in the winter and is already starting to get unbearable (and this regardless of the cold weather on the outdoors).

Do something useful - set a maximum limit and go about it quickly.

Anonymous

I work in catering, so am surrounded by hot appliances all day. Today the temperature of my workplace was 40 degrees. Within minutes of my starting work I was dripping with sweat.

This isn't just a 'summer' problem for me.. all through the year the kitchen is above 30 degrees.

There are fans above my head but unless i stand on a chair and stick my head inside it, I can't feel the benefit.

Installing freestanding or table top fans would go some way to making conditions more comfortable... a sprinkler system would be nice..... a 'mr.whippy' ice cream machine would be fantastic...

I am fairly accepting of the heat I have to work in, as it goes with the territory (catering), it is uncomfortable physically. I can put up with that, but I am concerned about other effects as I do know that my concentration suffers. headaches, stress, irritability, etc.

Anonymous

I work in the Dry cleaning industry. The temps reach over 40 degrees c! The humidity hits 100% most of the time in the summer.... I've been working to get some extraction (not air con) replaced and sorted. We have air con but it will never be man enough to cope with the heat. Three pressing tables, three large dry cleaning machines, large washer/dryer all kicking out heat its mad!

My staff who live in basingstoke Hampshire, find it difficult to stand up let alone deal with any kind of task at work. There is a legal upper limit. Its set at 75F Or 28C in new money but there is a upper limit. And with this info i'll take it further and get a better working condition for my staff.

Anonymous

Sorry all. No sympathy from me.

I am a soldier who has worked in temperatures of 60C in the desert down to -12C Falkland Islands and South Georgia.

Some of my work has been in windowless rooms where the temperatures reached 44C and no air con. Our civilian workers also continued with their work.

All p[art of life's rich pattern. Enjoy life whilst you have it,

Anonymous

my office is 27c today, that is with windows open, those that will open, fans and blinds half drawn, full of compputers and phone system for the whole site, which also creates its own heat, we have trees outside which do give some shade but also stops any breeze getting into the office. An upper limit needs to be brought in but I have no doubt it will do us no good at all down here!!

Anonymous

question to KD 20.06.05

please

I have been searching the Internet for more Info on upper limit Temperature in the Office- as our Office is absolutly unbearable. (and we are not alone!!)

But to no awail just yet. So I found your comment about the Limit of 28Degrees very Interessting. Could you please let me know the source of this information.

Many thanks in advance

Kersten

Anonymous

Our employer has decided to carry out 'schedule maintenance' on our air conditioning, during the hottest week of the year. Its like a an oven in here and they are refusing to do anything about it, even though they created the situation by scheduling this work during the summer months (They have know about this for requirement for months!).

I suffer terribly in the heat and from hay fever (which is being made worse by the open windows and fans). I made a point of discussing my hay fever and the need for air conditioned environment at the interview for this job. Surely I have some come back on my employer? Have they not set a precedence by supplying air conditioning?

Les Lane
Member - 52 posts

Her we are two years on and still the discussion continues.

What is the action to be taken if the "maximum" is reached? Is it as most people would hope to be send me home it to hot. What does that do for the employer?

What is a Hot day and where do we set the limit? In catering situations I am sure on lots of days the teperatures near ovens etc would exceed a limit.

In our building there are different temperatures on the various floors and we do not have air con. Do we only send some people home?

I believe this is best left to the employers to deal with. The gesture of cold drinks or ice creams goes a long way and still has staff working.

Anonymous

I can very much sympathise with Duncan - 9:53 22-Jun-2005, as I too suffer fromHayfever and believe that open windows and fans are making it that much worse. We too have no air conditioning, and the temperature in this office has been approx 32oc all week. It is very difficult to concentrate on the task at hand, particularly where there are figures and stats involved.

I would whole-heartedly support a regulation on maximum temperature for the workplace, although I appreciate that it may vary according to the type of work that you do and the type of facility you work in (i.e. office, kitchen, factory) due to associated machinery and appliances.

However, how would this regulation be applied/enforced? Few employees would risk the wrath of their employers if they had to walk out to make the point!

Anonymous

Ann ...

you do seem like a very sympathizing person! 1 of a big crowd...

Anonymous

Well at least some of you have windows to open..... Here.... I'm in an office for 10hours a day. with no windows.... door opens into another office with windows that open a little bit... not enough to cause a draught... but the sun shines on them.... so it's like a hothouse. I am sitting here in a lather of sweat.... drinking water just to keep myself sane......

Don't know the exact temperature... a draught would be great though

Anonymous

i work on a security vehicle with no windows that open no doors apart from exit door all glass is bullet proof and at moment most air con is broken so can you imagine the heat in these vehicles and manegment wont fix air con as it will cost to much , the vehicle i was on today had a temp of 100 upwards and they still expect us to wear ties. Were does the law stand on this someone will have a accident or fall ill with this oppresive heat.

Anonymous

Hi Sarah and Brian et al. A few points to help.

Sarah - You should not drink water but rather sip it. Too much water can amke you ill. You should not exceed 0.25 litres an hour. Certainly do not take extra salt as it can also make you ill.

Brian - Your vehicle is like an armoured fighting vehicle. We always wear body armour and cover as much bear skin as possible. This will protect us from the fireball if we are hit. Your tie actually makes little effect on you temperature, it is just a concept.. However, do you have water available at all times? You, also, should be able to sip water when you need it. Your crew should know how to indetify heat stroke/exhaustion and how to treat it. If it occurs urgent action is required.

For all - drinks should be water sipped and not acidic drinks. Cold drinks make you hotter as the effect on the body is for the core temperature to drop so the body reduces sweating to heat up the core temperature. Ambient temperature water is best then tea or weak coffee.

Anonymous

i go to school, and the temperature today is over 30 degrees. i cannot concerntrate, and i cant understand how people could possibly concerntrate in an office. i think there should be a law to let us go home at least, because our school cannot afford any fancy air conditioning. every day we make petitions, and we shall soon have the whole school signed. this however is'nt making any difference, and if the temperatures keep rising we are all going to leave school, and not return untill they do something about it.

i am also concerned that the temperatures are getting too high for our country. england is suppost to be wet and cold, am i the only one concerned that the climate is changing? it seems i am.

but, that is not the point. i think they should change the law, so that if the temperature exceeds 30 odd degrees we should be allowed to leave, or at least work outside.

this is a cool little message board man, nice work!

Anonymous

Good Grief ... 31.3 degrees is the ambient temperature in our office at present.

Our MD will not countenance the idea of allowing his staff to leave the premises due to something as trifling as Heat Stroke (hey, who needs the old brain cells anyway? Let 'em fry!)

The solution that he and the premises owner have arrived at? Simple: wedge open all the FIRE DOORS, in order to promote a through draught (which is having no impact, incidentally)

So, here am I and my colleagues, suffering the misery of this heat and waiting for a fire to sweep through the building and incinerate us all.

Any suggestions?!

Anonymous

I am very concerned about the conditions in some workplaces. My girlfriend works as a nurse on the third floor of a hospital and for the last 3 days the temperature on her ward has been between 33`C and 34`C degrees. She is very hard-working on too polite to complain about her own suffering (sbe almost passed out today).

She has however complained to her duty matron because the medicines kept on the ward are not supposed to be stored above 25`C

It is a disgrace that there are not clear guidelines for maximum temperatures in the workplace, I am sure this is not an isolated incident, if employers continue to insist that workers must endure these conditions (especially indoors) perhaps a little litigation might need to be in order.

Anonymous

I work in a school where it is really hard to work with the children. They feel miserable in the heat with no change of air (even though windows are open) and I (also feeling the heat) have to try and chivvy them along to work. Wouldn't it be kinder to all to either have fans installed to at least circulate the air, or send us all home for a break?

The continent have a good idea with a long mid day break, although the afternoons are pretty bad. Maybe we should start earlier?

Anonymous

Only the execs get aircon, We minions don't. The desk fans circulate hot air and interfere with computer monitors. Worse than that is that the women in the office wear summer clothes, short dresses, skirts etc and for some reason the men are only allowed to dispense with the tie. We still have to sweat it out at 32C.

Let the men wear summer clothes, ie shorts & T shirts. APS management in Malvern you know who you are!

Better still instal aircon

Anonymous

Air condition is a key factor, but improvements on exisiting systems can be very expensive and without detailed studies on the relationship between temperature and productivity management will always be reluctant to invest in such advancements. I work with a number of machines as I run the design department for my company and I have a close relationship with the system's performance. Apart from the obvious dip in productivity by staff (anyone who cannot see this relationship is either not affected by the heat or has a vested interest in not 'seeing' the effects a 35c+ environment can have) there is without any doubt a noticeable increase in equipment slow down and failure in this sort of environment. Addressing such factors are crucial as they can bleed a company dry if ignored. Also I would like to address the 'it's only two weeks of the year' school of thought. This might have been applicable for one year in three about ten years ago, but the heat can last for anything up to two/three months now and that is a major slice of the financial year. Air con probably isn't the answer - it's expensive, not always effective and bad for the environment (the very cause of this debate) - but it is probably the only affordable option when you consider that the green solution is architectural reconstruction. Whatever the solution it is obvious that the enclosed working environments in this country are set to become the source of increasing dissention if a broad reaching solution is not provided by the government. Everyone in my office works a long day with minimal breaks, these are people who do not give in easily, but even as I type there is trouble in the ranks - and where are we? June, the summer's just begun...

Anonymous

I work for the NHS. in a learning difficulty environment, the mamangers decided to shut half the windows. With half the ventulation the heat is a very hot stuffy place. The hest upsets the residents, and then they are even more violent to the staff and each other. The night heating is still on, and with no fans in most of the wards it is rediculous. The smells alone are awful esp from bodily fluids and excrement. Plus some of the residents smoke and this all makes for an alreads physically and mentally demanding job extremely stressful and dangerous.

For an NHS location it is nothign short of criminal.

Anonymous

I am a pupil at my school and the temperature has just touched 30C we think. We have no ventillation and no air-circulatory system and of course, we are all in shirts and ties.

Are we just another school suffering in the heat of the summer. It is too hot for us to concentrate and too hot for the teacher to teach. In the end our teacher has resorted to telling us to "keep quiet", accepting that we are unable to work in these conditions.

Our ability to adapt to the climate is awful, we have no means of making the place more comfortable and we shouldn't be made to work for 5 hours in these conditions.

Criminal

Anonymous

I am very interested to know where all these temperature measurements come from?

I am a general office supervisor for a large law firm. I have to try and keep people happy by constantly adjusting the air con to suit idividuals.

People often use their 99p thermometers from the market to tell me that they are sitting in 30 degrees plus. When I measure with my calibrated thermometer it is often more like 25 degrees.

Whilst I don't disagree with the effects of excessive heat - I struggle to comprehend just how some of these temperatures are measured.

If a maximum permissable temperature was agreed at 30 degrees WHO decides if it is in fact 30 degrees????

Anonymous

It seems that, judging by the majority of comments, I would have to concur that the major factor is not just temperature, but air quality. We could all argue until we're blue in the face about what temperature is acceptable, but the fact remains that office environments need better management and any office managers that fail to succeed in this area should either receive better training or revise their practice standards.

You can't keep everyone happy, but SBS (Sick Building Syndrome) - which peaks during the summer months - isn't on the increase because of a 'complaining culture', it's because of the rapid changes in the workplace that have taken place without any compensatory development. I'm referring to the fact that their are on average more radiation sources (monitors, computers, printers, copiers etc etc) per office than staff and very little done to exchange the degraded air that passes through all these units, not to mention the carbon dioxide build up that results just from breathing, a factor that can become dangerous when you consider that warm air in a confined space moves far more slowly than cold air.

As I said in my previous comment, though, it's a big investment to get air con that works or to create an effective natural air flow (many offices don't have the luxury of windows, mine included), but it's an investment all businesses, schools and the like are going to have to consider more seriously as the years roll on. This planet ain't getting any cooler.

Anonymous

I have just come back from working in the USA; they have a heat wave at present.

I was working in temperatures of 37.2 actual temperature but with the humidity the USA Weather Advisory was the temperature would feel like 40.6 on the skin due to the humidity. Humidity was 64% to 80% depending on the time of day. Fourteen persons have died due to the heat in Florida.

Part of our work was outdoors, no aircon, and we worked on but used 50+ Sunblock and 0.25 litres of water per hour. No problems but rather tired at night.

Due to my work is had to wear a light weight suit, but could still function. Perhaps much of the problems are perceived ones due to poor air and not drinking enough water.

Anonymous

I work in a 1960's-built office tower block in SouthWest England. It has steel-framed, single glazed windows all the way round so it gets the sun from the minute it rises to the minute it sets. We cannot leave the windows open over-night so, by 8.00 am today the temperature on my side of the office (the East) was already 27c (that is about 79F in old money) and you can bet it will only get hotter as the day goes on.

Now I'm well aware that there is no upper limit for temperature and that one person's definition of "reasonable" may well differ from someone elses, but when you have management that refuses to even let the men remove their ties as, to quote my management, "consensus is that it is cooler today ? so no tie removal" is infuriating.

I am a grown man of 40 being told that I am not allowed to remove my tie whilst sat at my desk, despite my own statement that I am feeling uncomfortable with the temperature. A decision taken by someone who is wearing, as we speak, a loose cotton skirt and a thin, sleeveless, v-neck blouse whilst sat in a small side office with an air conditioner. With this sort of managerial inflexibility still in existence in the 21st Century I cannot wait for legislation to be put in place.

Anonymous

The fact that this thread has been around for so long, with so many varying opinions, proves that it would be almost impossible to legislate for an upper maximum temperature.

As a white collar worker (office based in London) that has previous experience of factory based manufacturing, I would have to say that most office workers tend to moan without any realisation of what real work and temperature variations are all about.

Spare a thought for people that are doing physical work in the same or higher temperatures that you have in your workplace. In fact, think about people in the Middle East, Asia and other countries that work in far higher temperatures than we will ever experience here.

We are very quickly turning in to a nation of moaners and whinger's, similar to a country not to far away.

Perhaps it is a reflection of just how good we have actually got it?

Anonymous

Many have commented on the virtual impossibility of agreeing and enforcing an upper temperature limit and I whole heartedly agree. The matter should be left to the employer to deal with. But should people really be sent home because it's too hot? I agree some legislation may be needed but it should be to ensure that employers make reasonable compensation for the heat ie; regular breaks, supply fans, cool drinks (relaxing dress codes- Andy) etc, not sending people home.

Good lord there's enough complaining goes about about the poor british weather, we should enjoy the sunshine for the limited time it is here.

I'm sure the complaint isn't actually about the hot temperatures, it's mostly sour grapes because who wouldn't rather be sat in a beer garden, or beside the Bar-be? Just accept that we all need to get on and do our jobs. We really are becoming a nation of whingers.

Workers -get on with it, Employers - do your bit, it isn't rocket science!

Incidentally, i wonder how many of those for whom the temperature is just "too much", spend their sweaty hard earned money on a flight across the med to sit in baking temperatures for pleasure? Get a grip.

Anonymous

During periods of sustained hot weather, draw in air during the night using low velocity fans on one side of the building and exhaust it via vents or opening windows on the other or through rooflights. This will pre-cool the building for the start of the working day. Security issues to do with maintaining openings at night can be overcome. During the day watch the angle of the sun and keep windows shut and shaded with blinds on the sunny side. Keep windows and doors open on the shady side and use fans to distribute the cooler air within the workplace. It is insufficient to simply tell staff to take more breaks on a hot day. Go further and provide a refreshment point with chilled water outside in a shady place, or shade with easily demountable open sided gondolas. This can also become a temporary meeting space or even a hot (sic) desking space given additional shading, enclosure, and wi/fi.

Anonymous

Most people here seem to be complaining about high temperatures! But I am in fact suffering from low temperatures at my work place. I am a teacher of English to foreign students. I teach at different venues often, most of which are really cold my students stay put on their chairs throughout the whole class time with their coats and scarfs on, unmotivated and not interested. I don't blame them because i feel the same. In fact i have slow blood circulation and I suffer from low blood preasure. One of the venues I go to is a registered charity and I feel very awkward telling them to install radiators when I know they can't afford it. We only have one small heater that you have to sit right next to it to feel the heat!

Anybody know any rules and regulations about such a situation?

Thanks

Les Lane
Member - 52 posts

In response to Zeena the HSE guidelines on workplace temperatures is quite clear that employers should provide a minimum temperature of 16 c where the work is non strenuous. I believe this should be achieved by the time work commences.

Anonymous

I have been asked to look at a system called Brise Sloeil as a means of putting shades over the windows of the building to reduce the heat gain and make the working temperaures maor comfortable.
Whilst I have spoken to some providers, I am looking for advice from anyone who has used such asystem as to its effectiveness. Is there anyone out there who is familiar with this product and would be willing to advise on its use and if close by to Poole allow us to come and visit to see it in situ?

Anonymous

Les, we have Brise Soleil fitted to our office building and although i don't know the technical details about it's benefits i can tell you what we have found from the practical side of things.

Firstly there are issues with the actual installation that need to be considered. We have had to have the 'Blades' refixed twice because the correct fastenings were not used in the first place. Make sure the installation is fully completed using the correct fixings and that your guarantees include repairing detached blades. Brise Soleil may help with direct sunlight, but it acts like a wing in strong winds and takes some serious loads, detached blades can cause expensive damage to your building and a potential hazard. I may be biased as we suffered from a poor installation job, so this is just my personal experience. It also hinders our window cleaners and the company who cleans our building.

Now the good points, regarding temperatures, The Brise Soleil is only fitted to the south facing side of the building and there is no denying that it's prevention of direct sunlight hitting the windows is beneficial during times of very sunny weather. A lack of direct sunlight reduces the time it takes the building to heat up without any loss of lighting and psychologically offers comfort benefits. The problem is the building does still heat up. We do not have Air Con but operate a natural ventilation system (windows!)so on particularly sunny, still days we still have it hot. There are also those days when it is extremely hot and humid without there actually being strong sunlight, on these days it becomes ineffectual. It's a difficult one to judge as the Brise Soleil was already fitted to our building when we moved in, so if given the choice would i install it again? It does offer some benefits but for the limited time of the year when hot direct sunshine is a real issue have you considered other alternatives like window films? There are some very good products available.

Having re-read this I apologise that i don't seem to come down on either side of the fence, but it is a specific tool for a specific job and has equal plus and minus points. It will reduce the effects of direct sunlight but won't stop your building becoming hot on it's own. Hope this is of some use and good luck.

Anonymous

i work in a warehouse on a night, and the shutter doors are open to the fullest because of the wagons on a night, and the FLT's bring the pallets inside.

last night was especialy cold and when i askedto have one of the coats that have been on the side for about 3weeks, they turned round and said that it was for the "delivery drivers only".

it may be cold on a day, but on a night its even colder.

i was just wondering what the law is for us to work in minus conditions?

lorraine owens
Member - 1 post

A difficult problem with no 'one fits all solution.

There is one truism though - you can always put on another layer of clothing but there are only so many you can take off...

I was truly shocked when I discovered, years ago, that there was only a legal minimum temperature and no legal maximum.

I am one of the "I'm too hot grumps" and frankly I am never going to be really comfortable in any office environment. I hate automatic air fresheners as well and people who wear perfume and aftershave in the office and people who cook curry in the microwave or burn the toast. Can't tell you how close that toaster has come to being 'lost in the bin.

To all of out there getting hot under the collar... hang a picture of the arctic over your desk and get frosty with anyone who complains. Some of it can be alleviated by thinking cold thoughts about the premises department. Happy Christmas one and all.

john smith
Member - 3 posts

I work in an enamelling dept with four furnaces each reaching temperatures of 800 c . The shopfloor temperature reach anywhere from 35 c to 43 c during summer months . A thermal comfort temperature of 30 c should be enforced by law . It has been requested plenty by the T.U.C. and even the World Health Organisation recommends this. I'm sick of being told by people who sit in air conditioned offices that 35 c is a comfortable temperature to work in. How comfortable is it to go home at the end of each shift soaked through to the skin in your own sweat . It's time to act now before it becomes worse.

Anonymous

Two comments. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen! if you work in an industry that uses furnaces, ovens etc. the work place will be hot. It would not be practicable to keep the place cool. It may however be practicable to provide a cool room as a recovery area for the workers. To look at the problem from the other way round, there is a minimum temperature for workplaces but you would not expect to find it if you worked in a cold store.
Second point. Everyone moans about the facility manager not keeping the building at a comfortable temperature but how do you deal with the situation we had recently. at a cluster of four desks, one person claimed they were too cold and that the air conditioning must be switched off. One person counterd this with a claim that they were too hot. The other two people involved said they were comfortable. Backpack airconditioning unit to produce individual micro climates perhaps/

Anonymous

does any one know the legal minimum working temprature i work in a department store and our heating has been off for days its been that cold that one of the workers was sent home without pay because she was so cold she couldnt work

Andrew Dixon
Member - 1 post

Depends what you're doing in the store. If it's normal sales assistant work the temperature should be 16 degrees or more. I'm pretty sure it's unlawful to send someone home without pay if it's less than this.

Stacey Collins
Member - 14 posts

Additional legislation might be needed to tackle a very serious health and safety issue for which current legislation is inadequate. For the vast majority of employees workplace temperature is NOT one of those serious issues - very few if any fatalities occur in UK offices as a result of hypothermia or heat stroke. Existing legislation is sufficient.

Why, whenever there is an evident hazard in the workplace, does everyone think we need more legislation to tackle it? Why don't people know that every law regarding your health and safety at work has basic guidance (or even approved codes of practice of quasi legal status) attached to it; guidance that you can easily read and that your employer would be taking a considerable risk in ignoring.

Workplace Regs requirement for a "reasonable temperature" allows all manner of workplaces to set the temperature that allows them to operate. A maximum temperature is an absurd notion. Walk-in fridges and steel furnaces clearly can never be 23 degrees C at all times, and 13 degrees C within the first hour of work. Any legislation with a set maximum would have to have myriad exemptions for every kind of workplace where a set max or min temp made it impossible for them to continue their business; it would just create another too unwieldy weapon in the fight against those employers who really don't give a monkeys how uncomfortable you are.

Instead we go from the basic requirement of "reasonable" temperature (and by extension, what most people would agree is unreasonable almost always is) to some practical guidance to consult on how to achieve this: HSG194 Thermal Comfort in the Workplace (it is also on the HSE's website as a hazard topic in the drop down list).

If you have a workplace temperature problem, draw your employers attention to HSG194. The TUC would do well to tell their members that as well, instead of lobbying for loads more paperwork for enforcers and practitioners alike, loads more taxpayers money to be spent, loads more moaning from the CBI, with inevitable delays, fudges and contentious posturing, and more confusion for everyone who isn't working actually working in an office and only having to consult a thermometer and remember a 2 digit number.

john smith
Member - 3 posts

In reply to the anon reply to my comment if we don't go into the kitchen who does?
And when you're told you're only allowed 1 fifteen minute break in four hours of work with the temperature being 34 deg c which the management feels is a comfortable working temperature what argument do we have without a max temp law and what's comfortable for one person isn't for another.With the law being what it is why do they have to provide cool rooms and if they do, they don't have to give us time to use them.

Wes Leigh
Member - 2 posts

Does anyone know if there is an upper temp limit for an office where the heat has been artifically generated i.e. by heaters? I'm working in an office and there is one office worker that insists on having the central heating on plus a 3kwh electric heater blasting out. The other day, the electronic thermometer was at 38'c, but it is normally around 34'c. In my opinion this is far too high but she insists that she is cold and will sit there in an overcoat if she is asked to turn off the heater.

So, does anyone know if there is some legislation for artifically heated places??

Anonymous

Wes,
The regulations you should look at are:
The Fuel and Electricity (Heating) (Control) (Amendment) Order 1980 was introduced in the interests of energy conservation. This stipulates that employers may not use energy for the sole purpose of raising temperatures in excess of 19°C.
This order is still in force today

Wes Leigh
Member - 2 posts

Many thanks Anon 9:14 16 Feb 06...answers my query spot on...thanks again.

Anonymous

is there a lowest temperature in place legally?

Anonymous

to the last two Anon's
you should be looking at the "The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare)Regulations 1992. Regulation 7
Example: The minimum temperature that should be achieved is 16°C or 13°C where the work involves severe physical effort. However, this may not provide a worker with "reasonable" comfort, especially if their work is sedentary. Other factors also have to be considered, such as the type of work undertaken, the level of air movement, and the relative humidity.
Heating may be turned off or down when the building is not in use. However, this is provided that it is turned on again in time to bring the temperature to a comfortable level when the building is re-occupied.

Les Lane
Member - 52 posts

As the summer approaches yey again we are looking at the installation of a comfort cooling /air conditioning system.

Someone has suggested that if we do this there are possibly some staff who are suffering from a condition where they can not work in an air conditioned office.

Does any one out there have knowledge of such a condition or any other things staff may try to say they cant work in air conditioned surroundings.

Rowena Wood
Member - 3 posts

Certainly workplace temperatures always generate a lot of discussion!
It is an emotive and difficult subject to address and there are pros and cons with regard to air conditioned v non air conditioned rooms and each person does react to heat and cold differently
The common problems with being too hot are usually dehydration and its many accompanying symptoms ranging from headaches; fatigue; irritability and decrease in productivity, to more severe states such as heat stroke. Heat stroke is a specified clinical condition and requires prompt medical attention.
From a legislative point of view the employer has a duty to provide (So far as is reasonably practicable) a safe working environment under Section 2 of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974.
Risk assessment should play a part in deciding what thermal controls are needed in the workplace but assuming that in this instance air conditioning is not available I would advise employers to consider the following:
? Monitor the temperature at several points in the building throughout the day
? Provide a clean cool supply of water and cold drinks (putting cold drinks machines onto free vend during hot weather can have beneficial productivity and moral benefits)
? Look at changing work patterns/allowing flexi time, for a short period when weather conditions are expected to reach for example above 27 deg.c ? can people work from home; or work mornings or evenings when it is slightly cooler
? Look at putting in measures that means computer equipment is turned off properly overnight thus generating less heat
? Provide more frequent short breaks to allow a drink and cool down
? Provide supplementary items that individuals can use ? desk fans;
? Provide if possible ?break out? areas which are designed to provide optimum thermal comfort
? Utilise occupational health services where possible to provide advice on optimizing comfort i.e. advice on drinks; fans; clothing; use of alternative therapies for cooling etc i.e. use of proprietary cooling gels for topical use
? For those people working in permanently warm conditions due to nature of work i.e. kitchens and certain manufacturing areas, then considering design of equipment to insulate against heat loss; provision of work wear that is suitable i.e. made from natural fibres; work hours and breaks to ensure adequate hydration and rest periods; design of the process flow and layout of building to minimize heat production etc and specific health assessment for those required to work in areas where heat production is inherent to the process i.e. steel manufacture .

If air conditioning is provided, it is not an ultimate panacea and the employer will need to consider:
? Positioning and design of the equipment ? one of the most common complaints is draughts and cold from air conditioning
? The cost and resources needed to install and maintain such a system
? Education for staff in use of the equipment.

Rowena Wood
Consultant
Prima Health and Safety Ltd
tel: 01480 387753

Anonymous

Can anyone give me more information on the '24 degree debate' to help the environment- I believe legislation is due on this subject?

Donnelia Joyce
Member - 1 post

After reading much of this i have noticed, the majority is relating to buildings and work within a building. I however work outside and today the temperature was just unbearable. I have approached my manager on numerous occasions regarding staff wearing shorts in the summer months. I have the option to wear a skirt, but the male part of the team has to wear trousers (Black). Do we have to wear trousers in temperatures reaching higher than 18C. This in my eyes is not careing about the staff, but that the job is done!!

Anonymous

There definately should be a maximum working temperature as in our part of the department in the hospital i work for, the temperature regularly hits 30C. When it is very hot outside it can go upto 36C and we are still expected to work in these conditions. Also my employer insists that we have to wear uniforms made of 100% polyester and as you can imagine it this heat it becomes almost unbearable. We have asked for air conditioning but the hospital will not fund us for the equiptment. They supply us with fans but as you can imagine they just circulate the hot air. Why has the laws not been changed????????

Anonymous

I work in a factory, originally built in the early 70's. The building is approx 100m long and has no opening windows at all.

Yesterday, for example, the outside temperature reached a comfortable 26 deg C. Inside the factory we were faced with 29 deg and humidity you could swim through!

The management have provided desk fans for each workspace which does provide a cooling effect to some degree if you are in the airflow. However this does not reduce the temperature or humidity and by the end of the day the workforce were exhausted.

I made attempts to prop open fire doors to get some fresh air in but a "Jobsworth" manager closed them stating fire doors must remain closed!

And I thought "Sweatshops" were only found in third world countries!!

AND please don't get me on to the winter temperature!

james coull
Member - 1 post

I work offshore on drilling rig. My workplace (the control room) is based in the centre of an SCR room and while we have 3 engines running these SCR's tend to heat up quite a bit. They act like a storage heater and keep my control room nice and warm, curently around 38C, There is no fresh air ventilation, only one small a/c unit which is suposed to keep all the electrical boards cool. The area of the room is aproximately, 10m by 20m and in my opinion the a/c is about as much use a chocolate fire gaurd. The managment have known about this problem for aproximatly one year but yet again choose to burry there head in the sand. There is no clean drinking water onboard at the moment, ususaly i have to bring bottled water with me to my work and there is not a desk fan in sight. Just to top it all off i am expected to wear coveralls and safety boots while at my place of work. Never mind, i should have know better but to work for a drilling contractor!!

Katy Brown
Member - 48 posts

The current heatwave means the thoughts and issues contained in this thread are more important than ever. Despite being a service for employers the forum does receive posts from employees too. This should show employers how important an issue this is. This thread and the thread http://www.workplacelaw.net/forum/thread.php?thread_id=228 both contain a large range of recommendations and experiences from other employers, including architects, facilities managers and health and safety professionals. Please feel free to add your own comments.

Anonymous

I am a pupil at a school in the channel islands and the temperature reached 32 degrees celcius today. Everyone was dehydrated, had head aches and the water machine didn't work. This is unfair as everyone was hot and dehydrated. Surely there must be a law that indicates the maximum temperature in schools.

Anonymous

I certainly think the law should state a minimum and a maximum working temperature.
I work in a care home and in this heat at the moment it is unbearable 32 degrees outside with the heating on full inside is no joke and again same as most all we have are fans circulating very hot air.
We only have to walk in the building and we have a sweat on, thats before we even do any work this issue needs to be dealt with now.

Les Lane
Member - 52 posts

In response to Anon above. Why is the heating still on in July? I know the elderly feel the cold but surely there are thrmostats to control the heating which surely is not needed at the moment.

This would not only cut down the heat but also save monry on the fuel bills.

Michael Westwood
Member - 1 post

I am an unfortunate techie, which means I sit in the corner of the office between the servers and the photocopiers. These all put out heat like mini fan-heaters. I have a portable air-conditioner pointing at my face, yet the display is reading 28-29degrees today. I feel sorry for anyone who has 30-32 degrees to put up with. I would pass out at that temperature. I look forward to sitting in traffic in my car at the end of every day, where for an hour or so I can be nice and cool.

Please please can we have an upper limit. I think everyone is less productive when its too hot. In our office (relativly small) we would only need another 2 or 3 £200 portable units to make the whole office barable. The only reason that the budget was aproved for the 2 units I bought was hecause the servers were overheating and shutting down. Doesn't seem to matter to employers that their employees are overheating and shutting down

Anonymous

if a company wishes its employees to wear a work uniform , is the onus on the company to have the garments cleaned (legally speaking)

Steven Smith
Member - 2 posts

My workplace regularly reaches over 30c on hot days. The work is very strenuous, and we have time for very little breaks - we struggle to get 20 minutes in the 8 hour shift.

Everyone sweats, has heat rash, some are violently sick with headaches and pains. We have discussed the matter with our employer who bought us an ice-lolly and one fan after much persuasion. This did nothing to alleviate any of the symptoms.

Quite frankly I feel animals are treated better. We have no union to back us. I don't want to have to force the employer to get air conditioning because this could result in bankrupcy! Is this really what you get for being a hard working member of society, sometimes I can see why people prefer to live off tax-payers!

Anonymous

we need a upper limit

Anonymous

I work in a factory where there is no air conditioning and because we use heat tunnels to shrink wrap goods the tempretures have been unbareable on one occasion one of the managers came out of his newly fitted air conditioned office,onto the factory floor,on that day and that day only we got an extra ten minuet break and an ice lolly,"wow".
WE are allowed a drink but only if someone can relieve us and thats only once,we spend a magoritey of our working day on our feet and in the heat we work in it can be unbareable.
we have been promised a cold air system that fits on our dustextractor blowers,but they have been promising us that for over two years(funny how all the managers offices have not long had airconditioning put in.
And we are told by the goverment that swetshops and bad working conditions are a thing of the passed,laughable ay.

Anonymous

I work in a factory making UPVC windows, we av a glass roof, so when the weather is cold outside it is freezing inside and when it is hot outside everybody is dying. are there any legal requirements about workplace conditions?

Anonymous

In my office it is 37 degrees at the moment!! Previously before the partition was taken down (2 days ago!!) the top temp was 39! There has to be something done with regards to this, i'm a departmental manager and can see my staff suffering and can't do anything about it! There is only so many times you can let your staff leave 2 hours early!!

Anonymous

Its so difficult working in such heat. I personally feel we should have the day off if the temperature reaches above 28 degrees - dont we all wish. All I want to do is fall asleep at my desk. How productive is that? I cant even string a sentance together today because my brain is cooking. I guess we're not happy when its hot and not happy when its cold.

Katy Brown
Member - 48 posts

Employees can now download, and print out, a Workplace Law factsheet to give to their employers. This factsheet contains advice and guidance on how employers can - and should - deal with high workplace temperatures. The factsheet can be downloaded from: https://www.workplacelaw.net/my/download.php?download_id=423

Les Lane
Member - 52 posts

At last some sensible input to this topic.
Iread with interest all those comments that call for days off and early finishes. Arepeople still going to expect to get paid. Employers pay us to be at work and to achieve an output in return for our salary. This is a matter for negotiation as its said, start earlier and if need be a longer break at mid day and then work in the evening as it cools down.

Abroad we see people going to work in smart tailored shorts and shirts and are still as productive.

Time to wake up UK and be more flexible in our approach to hours and dress and ditch the staid nine to five and suits image.

Anonymous

Dear Les Lane,

Employers make a lot of profit from the work done by their employees. WHat is an hour to them?? The time could be made up in cooler weather. You forget some work-places are not permitted to wear such shorts and attire for health and safety reasons. I think it's time YOU woke up to reality not the rest of us.

Les Lane
Member - 52 posts

Dear Anon

You obviously did not read the message correctly. I fully endorse the making up of the time when it is cooler. It is a matter for employers and staff to reach an aceeptable compromise. Most of the messages I read here are people expecting employers to give with nothing in return.

As a manager I also have to put up withthe heatand still produce an output for my employer and I certainly do not make large profits working for a social housing landlord.

What is needed is for people to look at the wider picture and tailor sloutions accordingly. As for the dress issue I would certainly not compromise safety but this is just part of looking at various solutions.

Anonymous

We are now working in an office of approx. 35 people, with 4 opening windows, the temperature is 34 degrees in here with fans circulating warm stale air.

I think introducing a highest temperature needs to be done!

Sara Mclaughlin
Member - 1 post

Has anyone changed their minds today nopw they are working in such conditions?!

Anonymous

I feel it would help a lot if my boss just said THANK YOU at the end of the day - as the same work output has been achieved but in worse conditions. I know my boss is not god and he can't make the sun go away, but a little THANKS would make ALL the difference.

Anonymous

im a tig welder in a factory without any air con it was 37c in my bay today, we have been given free cold drinks and a fan that blows the hot air straight back at you nice. There should be an upper limit as people collasping and banging their heads on stillages on the way down must be a health and safey issue.

Anonymous

I work for a plastics manufacturer, operating extrusion machines which run at 200-300 degrees centigrade. There are 11 such machines in the factory and the taskmasters expect you to run these machines at 1250Kg per hour. Imagine having to bag that into 25Kg bags. Thats 1 a minute. In temperatures like todays (19/07/06) in the UK it is too much. We have no air con, a dodgy extraction system (for fumes etc) and general ventilation is poor. A legal limit needs to be set for those of us that work in such conditions. Someone will keel over one day...

Anonymous

37 degrees outside and 40+ on the shop floor today. One small fan on the cash desk and any liquids on the shop floor must be hidden from customers. WTF? This sounds a bit crazy but please stay away from my store so that the ambient temp stays slightly lower.

tom nelson
Member - 1 post

Working at an GM automotive dealership as a tech. The past couple of days have seen temps out doors at 100 degrees Fahrenheit and inside the building which is easily 65 years old the air temp was 110 degrees Fahrenheit. Today it was heavenly cool 92 degrees Fahrenheit in the work place. One of the office personnel came out and asked how I could work in such conditions. You see inside the office the AC is so high that people are wearing sweat jackets. Do we need a temp limit? Absolutely the people in the office should not have to endure winter in the middle of summer.

Tech@ jamaica Buick NY

Andrew Sutton
Member - 5 posts

We've been looking at how to control the heat our employees are exposed to. A number are working outside with no shade for 8 hours and are becoming tired and dehydrated quickly.
We have implemented the following:
- Readily available cold drinks to prevent dehydration
- Regular breaks
- Sun tan lotion available if employees want it - most do!
- We have also found some "cooling wraps" via google that can be put inside safety helmets to reduce the heat.

Anybody got any further suggestions?

Gillian Nightingale
Member - 175 posts

Employees can now download, and print out, a Workplace Law factsheet to give to their employers. This factsheet contains advice and guidance on how employers can - and should - deal with high workplace temperatures. The factsheet can be downloaded from: https://www.workplacelaw.net/my/download.php?download_id=423

fiona paterson
Member - 1 post

I work for a local council as a Social Care Officer. This involves carrying out personal care on older adults, in thier own homes. The temperature in sunny Scotland is increasing steadily but what does not help is that the elderly often have thier heating on. Imagine assisting with a shower in 30 degrees with a radiator constantly pumping heat at you! To make matters worse these duties are carried out in a totally unsuitable uniform of full length navy trousers and a maroon polo shirt made of the thickest material possibly made! The arguement is not to withdraw our services but simply to be allowed to wear cooler clothing. Easily solved you would think? NO, because the decision is made by individuals higher up the council who are sitting in thier offices with little summer dresses on!

Sheila Keogh
Member - 2 posts

Not all companies can afford air conditioning. The charity org that I work for certainly cannot afford to lash out money on air con for all of its very small offices that are dotted around the country. If we spend money on air con, we'll have no money left to spend on the people that we are here to assist.

Sheila

Anonymous

As a Unison H&S rep I seem to be fighting a losing battle with the council over their brand new "state of the art" library which regularly sees temps of 110 and over. staff are droping like flies but with a restrictive sick policy staff are afraid to go off sick for fear of dismissal. In this day and age a glass building with no air-con!!!

Colin Holmes
Member - 1 post

While I fully agree that there should be a upper temperature limit that people can work in I don't see how it would be enforcible. There has been a lot of talk about the minimum temperature in which people can work, I have worked in the distribution industry for the last 30 years and have never worked in a heated warehouse. Every year people work in temperatures well below the so called legal minimum, when I have questioned EHO's the answer is always the same " Its not reasonibly practiable to heat a large warehouse". So would I get the same reply when I ask about the warehouse being to hot.

Anonymous

It appears that my previous commentary on this website has been overtaken once I mentioned Unison.

My last comment was 'is an anomoly between people's knowledge of Farenheit and Celsius.

terry winnan
Member - 4 posts

"Caroline Kennedy - 11:57 17-Jan-2005
unregistered I am cold unless the temperature is about 23/24 on the thermometer and I am rarely uncomfortable in the summer heat of southern Spain. I have to wear layer upon layer of clothing, a blanket around my legs and a scarf around my neck, frequently, in winter at work. My hands are often too cold to type. Others in the office want the windows and doors open and turn all the radiators off. In summer, when there is an opportunity to be warm for a change eveyone wants to cool it down so I am still cold. It makes me miserable and I don't want to move or do anything. The majority of comments here are from those people that can't take a warm spring day in England. The people I work with are the same. I am sick of being the one that doesn't get needs met whilst everyone else does. It isn't fair on me"

Absolutely Pathetic.

terry winnan
Member - 4 posts

From the very early stages of human development, we have fashioned different types of clothing to cope with varying temperatures. The lady that posted the piece above surely has to be ill.

I'm sorry but she is out-voted! She can darn well put something on if she REALLY is cold at 23 degrees. Why should all of the men in the office and perhaps even some of the women have to suffer all day just because there is one person that is not capable of surviving in anything less than a tropical environment.

Now come on.

Craig Rowland
Member - 4 posts

It's interesting no-one seems to consider the environmental effects of a mass increase in air conditioning installations?

Anonymous

As a serving british soldier I feel able to comment on this issue due to the very nature of my job. First and foremost i am a soldier and have worked and lived in the extremes of temprature most of my working life. From the Artic to Iraq. most of this has been done without the luxury or air con or central heating. I survived! Secondly i am a heating and refrigeration engineer. ironic ???
23 degC is not hot. Nor is it cold; it is well within comfort conditions provided the relitive humidity is between 50%-60%. And theres the rub. temprature itself cannot be taken as a measure of comfort. The factors to consider are wet bulb and dry bulb tempratures. The closer they are together the less comfortable you are going to be.Also you should all remember there is an enviromental cost to all this...... Perhaps we should consider putting up with a few days of warm weather each year and do a little something to save the planet. Just an idea!