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James Larkin
Member - 3 posts
In N Ireland we have not as yet has the Fire Legislation amended to bring us in line with the Fire Regulation Order. I would be interested to hear of comments from perons who have had first hand experience of the new FRO in practice and any potential pitfalls that we should be looking out for. In particular I would like to know if the change in the fire legislation has resulted in more Personal Emergency Evacuation Plans being considered for workers with disabilities. Unfortunately DDA concentrates almost exclusively on access to buildings and is somewhat silent on egress although this should be covered under the broad heading of reasonable adjustment. I would also be keen to learn how effective the new risk assessment approach has been and who determines the requirements of the competent person. Has the market been exploited by unscrupulous, unqualified opportunists?
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Phil Lemon
Member - 50 posts
I am by no mens an expert. these are personal views.
Evacuation and evacuation of disabled or mobility impaired staff has been discussed recently as have PEEP's
Competent - Sufficient training, knowledge, experience, etc etc
There do appear to be conflicts between obligations under the DDA and the RRO which have not yet been tested in the courts
My advice would be to go for a recognized training organization with links to a body like the British Safety Council or BIFM. Do not be frightened into action by all the opportunistic leters stating that you HAVE to be trained 'by THEM - NOW'.
the courts will ultimately decide if the person doing the risk assessment was competent if there is a problem.
If you have been trained to do fire risk assessment and PEEP under the new legislation and do all that you can to undertake the risk assessments (including keeping a copy off site. you would not want the document to go up in smoke if it was your get out of jail free card)
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Mike Kane
Member - 20 posts
The Fire Safety (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2006 are at consultation stage and after this final few months will be enacted.
Although there will be slight differences between those regulations and the English, Welsh & Scottish versions, the main thrust will be exactly the same.
This will require the Responsible Person to undertake a fire risk assessment and act upon the significant findings of that assessment.
In the case of employees or other relevant persons with any form of special needs the assessment should identify the condition and from this the necessary action to be implemented to ensure that they are not treated in any lesser way than any other employee.
In the case of PEEP's the RRO does not specifically require them and the Northern Ireland Regs will probably mirror this. It is for the individual employer to address personal needs in conjunction with the individual concerned.
There are many professional companies and organisations offering a genuine service to employers, however, there are quite a few some scaremongers and cowboys out there as well.
For fire safety the Fire Protection Association (The FPA) is a good starting point for advice, or the Institution of Fire Engineers (The IFE), both of which can be found on the internet.
Mike Kane
fireuk@msn.com
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cathy tye
Member - 6 posts
My experience of the RRO has been a positive one. In my case, all in all from the workplace persepctive there has not been that much change in what an employer has to do. The RRO has put it all in one place and published decent well-written (and free, downloadable - http://www.communities.gov.uk/fire/firesafety/firesafetylaw/) guidance to go with it.
If you have robust fire risk assessments in place (in our case previously required by the Fire (Workplace) Regs then not much more was required.
In relation to PEEPS for me generally there has been no change (except it has been more explicitly written down - and better guidance given as to what to include) as under the Management regs you have always had to consider the needs of vulnerable staff and visitors etc and the individual risk assessment for that should consider access issues.
I have had contact from colleagues saying that they have had leaflets through from various organisation stating training is required on the new regs etc and did they need to attend. My response is usually along the lines of (not a complete list - for an overview see http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/151102.pdf):
-have you got a robust fire risk assessment in place?
-have you got fire precautions/ detection in place, inspected, tested and maintained etc?
-has the action plan been actionned?
-Is it reviewed regulalry?
-Has the FRA and information on fire causes etc been shared with all staff and visitors?
-Do all your staff know what there role is in preventing fire/ spread of fire on a daily basis?
-Do you have fire marshalls or equivalent?
-Do you have a fire evacuation plan?
-Does it work?
-Do you practise it?
-How long does it take to evacuate your workplace?
-Do you include those with disabilities or other issues affecting speed of evacuation e.g. someone with a temporary injury - e.g. on crutches, or heavily preganant (remember pregnancy is a state of wellness!!) or asthmatic (where smoke is a trigger for them.)
Some organisation still think that it is the fire service's role to evacuate the less able/mobile. This is not the case. the organisation has to start evacuation, you cannot just leave people in a place of relative safety. Fire evac chairs are often considered the answer and they may be provided with little thought as to who will operate them, their training needs, how many chairs are required (once you are out, you stay out) or how you get the person into them in the first place!
I have delivered training to a rangeof organisations and learnt that the key thing that employees and employers fail to appreciate is that although fire is rare the results can be fatal within minutes and that smoke is the killer.
I often show a training video produced by Essex County Fire and Rescue called fire and smoke - it shows a mockup of a bedroom and a smouldering cigarette dropped down the side of a chair. A timer is started at the first sign of a flame and three minutes later the whole room is alight. Delegates are always amazed at the temperatures involved (80 degrees at floor level and 200 at ceiling) and assume because they can initially see through the smoke that they would be able to walk/ run through it. They also do not realise that when smoke gets hot enough it will ignite.
The principles shown are just as important in the home where fire is a much greater problem as in the workplace. There is a fantastic eresource for domestic risk assessments that gives advice on how to resuce your risk of fire and the fire service will come to your home and give advice and fit 10 year maintenance free detectors for free.
This is one of the best bits about the RRO - it has freed up fire service resource to target the domestic setting where fire kills hundreds of people every year. See this website and share it with friends and family - http://www.fire.gov.uk/Home+safety/
Good luck! Cath
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cathy tye
Member - 6 posts
ps - in relation to your question about what makes someone 'competent' to complete a fire risk assessment - there is no easy answer and it depends on the type of workplace involved. I use the mneomic SKATE - identify what skills, knowledge, attributes, training and experience the potential assessor has in relation to both fire, your organisation, it's processes (e.g. manufacturing, service, call centre, office, residential care etc) and remember risk assessment is never just one person's job - you may initiate it but make it a team effort, then you get the best of everyone's knowledge.
Take it step by step (out in the workplace not the office) take photos but make it manageable. Just don't delay starting it, it may be appropriate to do what you can and then get help if you have high risk processes, chemicals or service users etc.
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Phil Lemon
Member - 50 posts
Cathy
Free Downloads are great thank you
Phil L
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Su Peace
Member - 1 post
There may not be a need to specifically apply PEEP's under the RRO, however there is a duty to provide suitable escape for all people leaving the building including disabled people. The only true way to do this is by providing PEEP's for all know people in the building.
It is important to note that it is not only wheelchair users that will require either faciitated or assisted escape. By going through the process of setting up a PEEP's system and finding out what the user needs are it is likley that the burden on management in the event of a fire will be reduced.
Good orientation, contrasting and applying some of the standards set in BS8300 to escape routes will give the opotunity for more of the building population to make their own way out of the building.
Where there is an unknown population there may well be a need for training for staff who will need to understand how to communicate with disabled people as well as what escape options might be open to them within the building.
It should also be noted that the people who need to be involved in the communication processes that are necessary for means of escape of disabled people may be wider than the normal safety team. Regular meetings that include personnel, operations management, reception, security are necessary.
I would advocate training for staff, however good quality disability equality training may be all that is needed to back up other regular fire training.
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