Hot Food at work

David Price
Member - 84 posts

There is no obligation on the company to supply you with hot food or an area with equipment to do so, this is another one of those areas where people get used to having a service that is then for what ever reason then taken away or stopped.

The smell of food in an office didn't used to be a problem at lunch time, but it would appear that these days it is? So a lot of company's are putting a stop to it. There are also hygine issues as this would become a food preperation area, and that includes areas where an employee is making a sandwhich or any other kind of meal.

It would seem that the company are simply avioding having to get themselves involved in relation to hot food, But if you have a Union you could argue that it was provided at the last site so it has therefore become custom & practice, and by the company choosing to move location to the middle of nowwhere it will prove very difficultfor staff to obtain hot food?

And a simple microwave or oven would prevent staff having to leave site to obtain a hot meal from the nearest supplier, Perhaps you could talk to a local sandwitch bar or cafe to deliver hot food to the company at lunch times, assuming that you have an area to eat it in that wont be affected by the smell.

Molly Andrews
Member - 11 posts

Sandwiches and a flask of hot soup in the winter should suffice with a hot meal when you get home. Having experienced in the past, in a multicultural workforce, the smell of some food is nauseating so I can well understand why the management don't want to provide a microwave.

Kevin Brown
Member - 110 posts

The ACOP to Reg 25 of the Workplace (Health Safety and Welfare ) Regs quite clearly says that workers who work during hours or at places where hot food can't be obained in or reasonably near to their workplace shoud be provided with the means for heating their own food. Alan said nothing about the employer providing the food in the first place.
A coffee machine is a nice touch, of course, but totally irrelevant to tea, bovril or soup drinkers. As far as hygiene is concerned it's for the employer to ensure that the facilities are kept to a suitable level of cleanliness.

sheena farenden
Member - 81 posts

Kevin is absolutely right.

Either contact your union or ask someone with H & S knowledge to help with dictating a relevant letter quoting the correct information and if possible get all staff to sign.

If there is no union representation look at the TUC website which explains a lot.

Nimisha Birmingham
Member - 1 post

Can I ask a slightly different slant on this matter? I work in an office where it is not easy to get hot food near by, we used to have a canteen but the company shut this down and the kitchen facilities are not accessible to us any more, recently the company has conceeded to provide a fridge and a kettle, however this is nowhere to was cups or plates, we used to wash in the toilets but recently we've been told that we are not allowed to do this anymore and we must take our cups home each evening to wash. Is this allowed, surely the employer has to provide washing facilities where we can was wash our plates and cups?

Kevin Brown
Member - 110 posts

Nimisha
Good ole Reg 25 again. 'Suitable and sufficient rest facilities shall be provided at readily accessible places. It says 'shall' which means must, which makes it a legal obligation. Also,
'Suitable and sufficient facilities shall be provided for persons at work to eat meals where meals are regularly eaten in the workplace'. The Approved Code of Practice states that good hygiene standards should be maintained in the parts of rest facilities used for eating or preparing food or drinks. If you have no means of cleaning dirty crockery, cutlery or utensils you can't possibly maintain good hygiene standards. So the facilities aren't "suitable and sufficient".
Your employer should also provide a source of drinking water and unless disposable cups are provided a facility for washing cups, mugs etc should be provided nearby. This is made even more necessary if you're making hot drinks. If you need to provided with the means to wash out cups that have only held drinking water how difficult is it to extend that further.
You need to challenge this set up before the thin end of the wedge gets thicker. A good source of assistance would be your union (if you have one) , the Environmental Health Department at your local authority or the HSE.

Charles Buckton
Member - 7 posts

Kevin,

Can I ask for further advice, as you seem to be a fountain of knowledge.

Can a company place a disclaimer in place in relation to employees re-heating food for general consumption using let say a microwave. Stating that the Company can not be held responsible for any food items that are re-heated for employees use.

Main concern here would be potential cross contamination and possible food poisoning.

Thanks

Charlie

Steve Hudson
Member - 7 posts

As a company we recently relocated and took into account the fact that we were futher away from eating places than before and as such compensated for this by providing a deli/ canteen. despite this we have numourous complaints about microwaves and kettles. In a new building these things only assist in the deteriation of cleaning standards and do not fall in line with the CEOs expectations. Many a day I walk by the tea/coffee stations and see the awfull mess left behind by lazy individuals. These are also the same people who leave the toilets a mess as well. Give them more and the potential for more mess exists. I bet the unions and do gooders wont give advice on how to tell a one of these people to change there ways without us finding ourselves at a tribunal.

Kevin Brown
Member - 110 posts

Charles
There is a general principle that everybody in the workplace is responsible for the health and safety of others. If, in the face of best advice and common sense, you reheat food in a shared facility (i.e. the microwave) and your colleagues start dropping like flies it woud hardly be fair to lay this at the door of the employer.
Other than ensuring that the equipment is maintained and cleaned properly the employer has little control over the use of the equipment. If home-cooked food is brought in to be reheated whoever brings to in needs to be sure that it won't cause cross-contamination. I personally feel that a carefuly worded Disclaimer will not only protect the Employer but could go a long way towards protecting the employees by educating them to use the equipment appropriately.
Don't get me started on shared fridges and fuddles ..... a twee name for botulism in a bun!
Steve
Underpinning legal minima. (Whatever are they doing in the toilets? Don't answer that, just let me guess). Many organisations prefer point of use instantaneous water heaters to kettles for various reasons, one of which is ergonomics). Also cuts down on the need for PAT testing and employees handling large volumes of boiling water. Microwave hygiene and cleaning standards can be addressed through the contract cleaners but users have shared responsibility to wipe way spills too, to protect their colleagues. The stick is that any such equipment provided as a concession that gets misused gets withdrawn. The carrot is continued enjoyment of the facility.
Anybody putting in jeopardy continued access to the facilities is likely to get it in the ear from his/her colleagues, most of whom will not want a Brief Encounter with E.Coli.
By the way, I see myself as a H & S Manager, also a TU H & S rep and a general Do-Gooder.
You a Do-Badder?

Mark Shuttleworth
Member - 57 posts

I fully agree that 'suitable and sufficient facilities should be provided' but i'm not sure exactly where it specifies that an employer should, and therefore must provide hot food? There is no legal requirement for an employer to do so.

However it would be an inconsiderate employer not to do so if the vast majority of staff wanted it. A water heater and a microwave doesn't take much looking after. Perhaps a guide as to what is acceptable could be agreed? We have facilities to reheat food; pasta, pies, soups etc but fish and curry dishes are not encouraged. Mind you we are now open to discriminatory claims against fish eaters and curry lovers, it's probably a breach of human rights not to allow a fishermans pie!

Kevin Brown
Member - 110 posts

Mark
I don't think anybody expects any but the most philanthropic employers to provide food free of charge, hot or otherwise. Alan's originating comment was that hot food wasn't allowed, not that the employer wouldn't supply it. That's just a red herring (but not, apparently, due to the effects of microwave emissions).

Mark Shuttleworth
Member - 57 posts

My fault Kevin, my last post does indeed read like I expect employers to supply the food too. Of course what I meant was that employers provide the means by which to heat food bought or brought in by the employee.
Still, I didn't think an employer had a legal obligation to provide the means? Is this correct?

No more red herrings, at least not from me - we're not allowed them ;-)

Patricia McIntosh
Member - 1 post

I work in a private hospital and recently the employers took away our tea, coffee etc. Not a problem as most of us bring in our own teabags and coffee but they have now said we can not use the jackson which we have always used to make our hot drinks. There is a new vending machine which we have to pay for. We are not allowed to have a kettle and were told that if we wont use the vending machine we must bring in our own flasks of hot water. This is not always suitable for people who use public transport and are already carrying their lunch with them. The hospital is not near any shops and we have always had our hot drinks provided.

Glenn Proffitt
Member - 5 posts

That seems a little harsh. Para 232 WHSW ACOP gives detail of what is suitable and sufficient. The ACOP further goes on to say that the employer must provide a means for heating food if there is nowhere reasonable. If that means a microwave or cooker then you would be able to use that to boil water.

Melissa Singleton
Member - 1 post

Can anybody please answer this for me'

Does a company have to provide sufficient heating within the workplace? the heating has packed up and all I have is 1 small heater. I work totally on my own and the the building is rather large

janet burton
Member - 84 posts

There are rules about the temperature of the workplace - it should be 'reasonable'. The official minimum is 16 degrees for offices, but the HSE does say it depends on other factors too (humidity etc), so this may not be the sole 'reasonable' factor.
If the heater is by your desk so that is over 16 degrees, but the the loos are freezing, I'm not sure if that is reasonable. I should make sure you raise the issue with management before winter sets in!

julia benning
Member - 1 post

hi, wonder if you can help me? My bosses in their wisdom, have deemed it necessary to remove the microwave cooker that we had at work. Three of us staff work nights, with no form of break. we are all lone workers, so therefore dont get a break as such, and now we have no way of heating up any hot food? Is there anything we can do?
thanks

Glenn Proffitt
Member - 5 posts

Hi Julia

Please look at my last post in this thread (4 above your last post).

janet burton
Member - 84 posts

Julia -
Also two issues - you say 'remove the microwave' - how long had it been there? They are changing your terms and conditions by removing it and not replacing it, and unless they have specific reasons (abuse of it by staff or Health and safety, for instance) you have a good argument for it to come back.
Second, re no break, if you work over six hours you are entitled to a break, and although there are special rules for night workers, see the recent ruling that breaktime must be allowed.