Health and safety outside premises: where do duties end?

Mike Booth
Member - 2 posts

I used to work in Shopping Cenntre Management and this was, still is and probably always will be a problem that business users, landlords and councils will never see eye to eye on.

In my shopping centre I would not allow A frames. The simple reason was that if someone (and they don't even have to be impaired - they often just do not pay attention to where they are going) fell over a board the customer would attack the centre not the business owning the board. As far as the injured person is concerned they fell over an obstacle that is on the landlords property and we MUST have allowed them to put it there. Now if the landlord fowards the blame to the business concerned they would be simply remove the board and remind us all that the accident did take place on landlords property.

My initial reaction was to get the business to sign a disclaimer that would make them entirely responsible. This way they could have what they liked outside their premises. But that transferance of responsibility only serves to make the two parties happy, it doesn't resolve the problem of blocking the highway or the malls.

I note a suggestion is that businesses should look for alternative methods like overhanging signs. I cannot speak for every area but most shopping centres and a lot of councils will not allow this as hundreds of these down a high street make it look untidy and lose the character.

So I think there is only one answer to this. It actually suits everyone concerned except the business. No A frames, boards, plant pots, bollards or anything that can cause an obstruction. But the same would apply to councils who like to install a row of bollards to protect their pavements.

Phill S
Member - 69 posts

You actually raised a point in your reply Mike.

A while ago I went to see an old friend from the past, in the old days he had failing eyesight and now hes completely blind.

he found his way around his flat, which I guess is to be expected, but was keen to show me around the area.

walking past some shops, he veered off to one side and grabbed my arm, sharply tapping a kerb-path joint which was sticking up, "Four bloody months and the council still haven't touched it" he said.

The point is by using his stick, which kind of scans just above the surface, he could pick up things like advertising boards fairly easily, but cracked paths, and kerbs sticking up obviously caused grief.

James Larkin
Member - 7 posts

The A boards can be a hazard therefore they to have a health and safety angle. The Corporate Manslaughter Act is a piece of criminal law but also has clear health and safety links. Perhaps as we approach the festive season it is worth highlighting the disability agenda also. Last year I took my disabled daughter out on the town coming up to Christmas. Numerous shops were inaccesible as additional merchandise had been placed betwen isles making them impassible by wheelchair. Pathways were inaccessible due to building hoarding pushing us out onto a bust road. Left doors were blocked. When I went to highlight this in the local press they would not run the article in case they lost advertisement revenue. Please ensure that this year the season of goodwill is extended to all.

Derek Jones
Member - 7 posts

I immediately think of all those situations where local authority and utilities contractors obstruct footpaths with 'A' frame notices saying 'Road Works', 'Use other footpath' etc. And yet whether ot not they have a dispensation for this, the notices are an obstruction for the physically disabled and blind, and very often they are placed and then left unattended for days on end. At least most shop owners take in their signs at night.

Phill S
Member - 69 posts

"Last year I took my disabled daughter out on the town coming up to Christmas. Numerous shops were inaccesible as additional merchandise had been placed betwen isles making them impassible by wheelchair."

"Local authority and utilities contractors obstruct footpaths with 'A' frame notices saying ... 'Use other footpath' "

Good points, The point I was trying to make before is how well people cope in diversity.

And Dereks point above leaves me wondering, how would a blind person read that? never could get that.

But this whole thing is about engaging brains, thinking of others etc, and in my opinion anything that could become a trip hazard or an obstruction should have a risk assesment, taking into account all factors.