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David Price
Member - 80 posts
Here we go again yet another strike, for better pay & conditions from some of the highest paid drivers in the country.
Why is it that these days only those who can have an impact on all of us are the ones that are striking whilst the rest of us have to bite the bullet.
Tanker drivers are well paid, and the high level of training that they have to go through to become a tanker driver does warrent their high pay.
Everyone in the country is suffering at the moment, not just the Tanker Drivers. What with costs rising for almost everything we now buy, it is getting very tight for everyone.
But It would seem that only those who are employed in a job that has impact on others, are the only ones with a voice.
This country is going to the dogs, we no longer are prepared to make a stand for what we beleave in, almost everyone has now only become concerned with their own problems and what effects them.
And we are always too ready to roll over and take whatever is thrown at us. I don't think that strikes are the answer, but unless you are in a position to impact on others these days, then you might as well sit down and shut up, because no matter how any strike affects us be it Tanker Drivers, Train Drivers, Tube Drivers, they all know one thing "we all need to get to work" as it doesn't take long for the costs to then start mounting up for everyone employers and employees alike.
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Tracy Haynes
Member - 5 posts
Agreed and seconded - thinking of emigrating!
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David Price
Member - 80 posts
I Might come with you.........
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Alex Gordon
Member - 17 posts
A bit of an over-reaction. I used to work inspecting tankers and their drivers and they have an extremely stressful and more importantly dangerous job. This group of emplyees are paid the same as they were almost 15 years ago. It's about time their wages were increased and I support them 100%.
good luck finding a country without strikes, hear China has methods to stop employees withdrawing their labour.
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David Price
Member - 80 posts
Alex, So why do you think that they have waited until now to take action? 15 years is a long time to wait in anyones book, I don't disagree that the job is an important one, but i'm not so sure that it's stressful.
I'm glad you are behind them 100%, I wonder if you will feel the same way if an emergency comes up and you need to use your car urgently but it has no fuel in it, or the emergency services can't come to you because they have no fuel for their vehicle??
There are lots of Doctors & Nurses who's jobs are far more important and far more stressful than that of a Tanker driver, and who are paid a lot less to do it, and the army who soldiers who are paid just £17k per year to put their life on the line, for the benefit of all of us.
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sheena farenden
Member - 60 posts
I have to agree that Chemical Tanker drivers have a difficult job they are unable like most HGV who are not ADR trained to leave their vehicles unattended or work longer hours to get overtime. They are also putting their lives on the line every time they drive.
However the Shell drivers are taking the mickey £40,000 per year and they want more. I know of many ADR drivers who earn a much more reasonable erssalary £25,000 these are the guys who deserve more not the Shell drivers. Do these people really think they should earn more than firefighters. Or as previous contributor stated our brave soldiers who are dying at an alarming rate or their families living in slums .
They are holding us all to ransom as unleaded is not available in my area thank goodness I drive a diesel as a disabled person I would be lost without my car.
There are 1,000's people out there who would do anything for that job with such a good salary quite a few with ADR as well so watch out guy's or you may find you are out of work or worse still your job is contracted out.
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Craig Stuart
Member - 86 posts
For goodness sake! If we followed some of the 'logic' used by contributors in this discussion, nobody would take any action at all for better terms and conditions! Yes - the armed forces should be paid more. Yes - Firefighters should be paid more; and Yes - so should those working in nursing etc. David says,
"...It would seem that only those who are employed in a job that has impact on others, are the only ones with a voice."
We all have a voice David, it's whether we choose to use it or not that is the key. You cannot blame any workers for collectively taking action against an employer for a justifiable reason. Strike action is not taken lightly and is very much a last resort. But because they are tanker drivers in this instance, it allows the right-wing press to jump on it from a great height and declare that we are being 'held to ransom'. Don't make me laugh! It only affects 1 in 10 of the garages in the UK - or have people just not noticed that? Hardly the biggest threat to civil liberties this century is it? Or have I missed something?
I would suggest there are more serious and disconcerting news stories at the present time to focus on.
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David Price
Member - 80 posts
Craig, if there are more serious stories to concentrate on then perhaps you would have better spent your time commenting on them rather than making an poor attempt to deal with the issues of this one.
We don't all have a voice, there are thousands of workers in this country who only wish someone would listen to them, but they do not have enough impact to get someone to listen in the first place. Even some Unions do not always take action when they should these days, because they know that the power that they once held is now gone.
And if Unions are protecting the workers that are under paid and not so well off why do they still charge high membership fees, that a cleaner for instance could never afford.
I'm glad you feel that this has only affected 1 in 10 garages in the UK, what you fail to mention are the large amount of supermarkets such as ASDA & Sainsburys, and smaller independent petrol stations who were running out of fuel by Sunday., and who would have had little chance of getting fuel id this Fridays strike had not been called off.
Your comment in relation to the logic used in the other comments is generally how people are feeling, and people like you just jump in when it suits you and make poor contributions and blame the press for making everything sound worse than it is.
May I remind you that it was the Govenment who said "Don't Panic". given the Govenments current track record at geing things right, I assume that you obviously beleaved them, it would apper that you are the one who has failed to notice what is going on, perhaps you work for the Govenment?
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Craig Stuart
Member - 86 posts
David,
The point I was making - and that you have missed - is that I feel we are not being 'held to ransom' which I believe is the issue.
I agree that there are thousands of vulnerable workers who do not have anyone listening to them, but that isn't the main issue here, I was only responding to your comment.
You seem to contradict yourself a few times. First you bemoan the fact that the tanker drivers union is taking action, then in your last contribution you say that 'Even some unions do not always take action when they should these days'. Where exactly do you stand on the issue?
I disagree that the logic used in other comments is generally how people are feeling. I do blame the press for making everything sound worse than it is, because that is what certain elements of the press do for political gain. Or are you not aware of this fact?
Thank you for the reminder in your last paragraph. I too am disppointed with some aspects of the current administrations record, but it is not a question of belief or non-belief. They were right in this instance to say 'Don't Panic', given the chaotic rush to the pumps during the last disruption that led to widespread fuel shortages and hiked prices. Would you prefer a return to that?
And no. I do not work for the Government.
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Bruce Manning
Member - 11 posts
Wow, it's hard to believe that you are both commenting on the same subject. I suppose it's down to which newspapers you each read...
Just as a matter of interest, I live in the West Country (apparently the area most affected) and I buy my diesel from the local supermarket. I saw no significant effect from the strike apart from marginally longer queues at the pumps on day 2. I spoke to people in the cashier's queue (there were three of us), and thay all said they weren't panic buying, but were topping up their tanks just in case....
Thanks to both of you for your frankness - that's what a forum is for, and the exchange of views. We learn by discovering that others have different opinions, don't we?
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Daniel Sweeney
Member - 19 posts
I buy my 'deisel' from the local Chinese supermarket in 25 ltre drums. Its renewable , extracts more carbon from the atmosphere when being produced than when burned, its sulphur free, doesnt contribute to shopping sprees by despots in Harrods and costs about 30p per litre. Thats less than the tax take on each litre of mineral deisel.
With oil companies posting record profits its not all that suprising that the team wants to see some love being spread around. I for one wont contribute to the OIl companies, HMGs revenue rip off, or the megalomania of sundry members of foreign minor powers with control over natural resources and their ilk.
Does my use of renewable energy offset the fact that I drive a landrover and live in the country?
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Tracy Haynes
Member - 5 posts
Daniel
Isn't the diesel you are buying "Red Diesel" and is illegal in this country?
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James Fairchild
Member - 257 posts
I don't think Daniel is referring to red diesel (which is illegal on the road), but is literally chip fat. I believe that if one pays duty on it, then you're fine (Daniel, please do tell us more).
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Tim Parnell
Member - 2 posts
I don't think you can use cooking oil legally. In any case the only person I have met that did what Daniel is doing, blew his Focus engine after 6 months. Good luck with that then. But please spare us this: "megalomania of sundry members of foreign minor powers with control over natural resources". Its their natural resources, oil was only cheap because we were more successful in stealing it before. If you don't agree, go have a chat with the people trying to scratch a living in the Niger delta.. it is we who have been holding them to ransom.
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Mark Shuttleworth
Member - 45 posts
Sorry but i don't agree with strike action at all, in any context or in any industry. The only people hurt are the end users, in this case fuel buyers. Why should it be the customer who is used indirectly to ransom the company. Yes we ARE held to ransom.
These tanker drivers are paid very well to deliver fuel, and i don't doubt it has it's elements of danger but how many Facilities managers are paid over £40k, and think about the level of responsibility we have?
If they don't like the salary, then why don't they push off and find a job that they are happy with? I'll tell you why they don't, because they know they're on a bloody good screw and they've got the protection of the Union.
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Craig Stuart
Member - 86 posts
Never mind Mark - it's all immaterial now as the dispute has ended with a victory for the drivers.
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Philip Jeffs
Member - 299 posts
When I used to have a Jeep Cherokee one guy I knew had a similar turbo deisel Jeep and used to mix 15% deisel with 85% strained 'spent' cooking oil. His vehicle ran fine with no modifications, was really cheap to operate, and there was no downside other than following him was like being behind a burger van!
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Daniel Sweeney
Member - 19 posts
Re Tim Parnells observation. I quite agree with him on the people attempting to scratch a living in the Niger Delta. They are mostly the Ogoni I believe and the people I was referring to were the Government of Nigeria and of those countries that see national wealth as a personal bank account for themselves and their families. THe fluctuations in oil prices on the global market and the enormous wealth generated rarely goes beyond the presidential/Royal coterie, so if my remarks were deemed offensive to those who actually work in the industries, rather than those who exploit those workers then I have been misunderstood.
There is a very low rate of duty payable on vegetable oil as a road traffic fuel and I believe there is a sliding scale dependant on the mileage, but this was covered in a 5th gear report a couple of years ago. If you want an interesting , at times amusing but not necessarily informative conversation with a civil servant, contact your local HMCR office and ask about this.
In relation to the focus blowing its engine, I think thats a Ford thing, but as Landies tend to be engineered in the school of the 'anywhere in the right field bombardier', it not really a concern. Anyone using veggie oil or recycled chip oil (not lard) could always get a commission from your local butchers for generating business with the barbecue smell!
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Tim Parnell
Member - 2 posts
Noted Daniel and apologies for any misunderstanding. It would be nice if the press asked why Shell employees get kidnapped, and there was some international pressure for justice at government level though - Shell and BP are making hay and saying nothing, but that's the way big business works. One thing the drivers strike did show is that being hit in the pocket works. I prefer decent workers rights in law to strong unions, but must recognise their utility in many cases. In fact all except one, just mention Bob Crowe to any Londoner!
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sheena farenden
Member - 60 posts
I'm a Londoner and Bob Crowe has no problem for me. He is a union man fighting for his members. My problem is with the employer who will not negoitiate in a civilised grown up manner.
As with many employers the only way you can get them to listen is to work to rule or strike.
Remember none of us really now what is going on rather like other peoples marriages you see a different picture to the people involved.
I still feel held to ransom by the Shell drivers though as they have made life very difficult for everyone in all aspects of life. Disabled without transport and Nurses etc unable to get to work without difficulty etcetc.
Perhaps we should all be wondering about the power these companies have over our lives if they stopped supplying our country would fall to pieces.
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