Fire evacuation

Alan Cox - First for Fire & Safety
Online advisor - 53 posts

Feona,

Thank you for your question - you have identified a problem that often arises when carrying out fire evacuation procedures and because you have identified it before the event you are in a position to change your procedure to fit the circumstances. The answer may be to 1. appoint / train another first aider or deputy fire warden that can take over or assist in the event of this situation occuring, or 2, in the event that this is not possible you will have to make what is termed a "dynamic risk assessment" and this entails you looking at the situation and deciding what is the most urgent action to take eg is the person in need of immediate first aid or could more lives be put at risk if you do not carry out your duties as a Fire Warden?
Whilst this may appear to be quite a daunting task remember the law does not require you to to be an expert in this situation and even if you get it wrong its unlikely that you would face legal action provided you could show that you took reasonable action in the circumstances. Also, the law does not expect you to carry out the duties of the Fire Service and if there was a fatality the investigation would look in depth at how that occured and if the evacuation procedure or training was at fault.
I hope that helps.

Alan

Kevin Brown
Member - 94 posts

Our evacuation strategy requires the Fire Wardens on each floor to be the last to leave, after first satisfying themselves that the rest of the workforce have left the floor. If anyone needs assistance to make their escape there are evacuation chairs and trained handlers. Anyone suffering injury in the workplace will either be able to make their own way out or be taken out by evac chair if unabe to walk.
If someone is injured descendng the stairs the First Aider will make an assessment of the severity of the injury and decided whether evacuation will precede treatment or vice versa, and whether assistance is needed to leave the building.
We are lucky in that we have a First Aider on each floor, some of these people are also Fire Wardens (its aways the same few wo volunteer) but we don't see the roles as mutually exclusive. As Fire Wardens they carry out a full sweep of the workplace so they can provide an assurance that the building is empty. If, in the course of their sweep, they find someone injured they combine both roles by assisting them to escape the building. Once outside and safe, they are free to treat the injury. We don't advocate remaining behind to provide treatment but acknowledge that in extreme circumstances there me more severe injuries.
In such circumstances you have to put the same value on the welfare of the Fire Warden/First Aider as anyone else. You also have to consider what is reasonable under the circumstances.
In most circumstances you'll have carried out a Fire Risk Assessment and acted on its findings. If you have a robust fire prevention culture, and effective management of fire precautions, including comprehensive and relevant emergency response procedures why assume anyone will be prosecuted? If your procedures are inadequate (and particularly if you know they are) it might be an entirely different outcome.
Incidentally, most fire fatalities succumb to smoke or toxic fumes. Sadly, I can vouch for personally that having lost a nephew recently in a house fire.

Clive Raybould
Member - 3 posts

Hi Fiona
Assume from the tone of your question that you have been given both tasks! If this is the case, I would discuss the concerns you have raised with your fire manager. I would agree with Alan's suggestion, that the obvious answer is to have two separate people one for each role, or have a deputy appointed. I would suggest that you need a deputy anyway to cover you for leave etc. Again if you have no other sensible options but to have one person undertaking both tasks, they would need to make that dynamic risk assessment should both situations arise. As an ex enforcer, I think that I would be looking more at the management as a failure than at the fire marshal should legal proceedings be considered.
Hope this helps.
Clive Raybould

Mike Kane
Member - 20 posts

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 ("RRO") is quite specific in requiring the responsible person (the employer) to "nominate a sufficient number of competent persons to assist in implementing appropriate procedures to be followed in the case of serious and imminent danger". This relates to fire evacuation procedures.

There is no "voluntary" aspect involved in this duty and to appoint an individual to carry out 2 or more roles with regard to workplace safety might be considered inadequate provision because of the potential conflict of interest that might occur in an emergency.

I believe that the roles of fire warden and other safety roles should be kept separate to ensure that in any Legal dispute the responsible person can demonstrate that they took all reasonable precautions and exercised due diligence in respect of complying with the duties imposed upon them.

Also, within the RRO, the "employer" is not afforded any defence in any criminal proceedings for a contravention by reason of any act or default of an employee of his or any person nominated to assist them in undertaking the duties imposed.

Mike Kane
fireuk@msn.com

Mark Shuttleworth
Member - 45 posts

What would happen if you were on holiday Feona? Worrying!

I agree with most comments made but most notably that Fm and First aider duties should be undertaken by different people wherever possible. That doesn't meant to say you can't be trained in both but you should have at least one deputy for each duty with a clear understanding of who deals with what in the event of a fire. If you deal with evac then you need to make sure your deputy is dealing with first aid.

I accept that this might be difficult for smaller business but whilst difficult it shouldn't be a reason not to insist on deputised fire and first aid duties.

Ideally you should have four people, one primary fire marshal plus a deputy and one primary first aider plus a deputy with deputies covering the primary's absenses. This requires only two trained first aiders and two trained fire marshals but you should be (almost) guaranteed at least one of each on site at any one time.

You should document this in your risk assessment with the recommendation that this be the minimal cover required.

Finally if your staff numbers total less than 4 then it would be reasonable to expect one person to fulfil both roles with a stand in nominted to cover holidays - or you could say every man/woman for themselves!! :-)