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RICHARD KNOPWOOD
Member - 1 post
I agree with some of the points. Business think they are covered not just by the fire certificate but any fire risk assessment that have been carried out also.
My biggest problem is the re-assessment and the work that has not been carried out on the recommendations. Lots of companies dont work on these.
I suggest every 12- 24 months for a re-assessment depending on the level of risk. I am finding lots of recommendations that have not been completed. This is like red rag to a bull when the fire enforcement officer arrives on site.
Dont sit on any outstanding recommendations. Ensure the weekly fire walkaround is carred out and logged. Most Fire risk forms will have a template to tell you what to check.
Consult with your fire risk assessor and ensure that all of the outstanding recommendations are adhered too. Once you are managing the issues and the enforcement office has inspected the premises you may not get inspected again for a long period.
It is well worth the effort on the initial work to get things in order. Compare some of the fines already given out 250k for the CO-OP etc the overall expense is minimal when compared to the enforcement costs and bad publicity if it all goes wrong.
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Ray Levett
Member - 3 posts
Whilst it was a good idea to combine a number of pieces of fire legislation under one umbrella with the new RRO, it was a bad idea to do away with fire certifictes as they laid out clearly in one document in a S.M.A.R.T. way what was necessary to safeguard the occupiers of the building. I am also suprised that the insurance companies have not objected to this new piece of legislation because if it does'nt work, they will be the ones picking up the cost and by association, so will we all.
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Iain Sanderson
Member - 30 posts
This is, unfortunately, all so very true. There are so many of the issues that fall short that are to do with responsible management - or the lack of it. Under Fire Precautions Act 1971 Section 8 re-inspections it was invariably in matters that related to management ( staff training, fire alarm testing etc.) where the majoirity of failings occured so it should be of no surprise that this is even worse where management has been given greater responsibility.
However, not all managers/employers are the ones solely at fault. I have seen some FRA reports that were done by so called experts that fail miserably. These can be people who were perfectly good on general risk assessment but they have no notion about fire!! Also there are many former Fire Brigade Personel passing themselves off as experts, some merely because they had worked in the fire brigade or because of the rank they had held. People are unaware that this does not necessarily mean the so called expert has the necessary experience or that they have ever worked in fire safety, no matter the rank they attained.
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Alan Cox - First for Fire & Safety
Online advisor - 53 posts
Iain,
You make some very valid points and ones which I encounter on a daily basis - unfortunately the situation appears to be getting worse rather than better which was what the RRO intended. The problem now is that when the building had a Fire Certificate it was very clear when an offence had been committed because it was very prescriptive - now it is such a grey area that its now difficult to tell the wood from the trees. It's a bit like speed limits - currently you know when you have broken the law because we have a national code but imagine a situation where we have no speed limits and you can go as fast as you like and you only have to explain your reasons for going at that speed when stopped by the police or have an accident.
I am not suggesting that we go back to Fire Certificates because as someone who issued many hundreds of them I am aware of their failings as well as their good points. The RRO also has many good points and if carried out and enforced correctly it has the possibility of being a step in the right direction but you have already identified a number of problem areas where it falls down.
If we are to stay with the RRO then I feel we need a 3rd party assessment scheme that companies could sign up to and which would have highly qualified national assessors that could issue safety ratings for individual buildings. Any company that used this scheme could then use the rating in marketing their company so if you were staying in a hotel for example you would now in advance that it had been independently assessed by a credible organisation rather than a manager that had been on a fire extinguisher training course. If a company did not want to sign up to the scheme you could draw your own conclusions.
I stayed in a very nice hotel some weeks ago that was part of a national chain and obviously I always check out my escape routes - what did I find, fire doors wedged open, fire doors not working correctly, fire doors with large gaps, obstructed fire exits and incorrect/missing signage. I wrote a letter of complaint, together with photographs to the MD, a month later I had a letter from the Group Health and Safety Manager thanking me for my comments and telling me how seriously they took fire safety and they had written to General Managers reiterating the importance of keeping fire doors closed. I have now written back to him informing him that it was not just the closing of fire doors that I wanted some assurance on but the other aspects that I had highlighted.
This was the second hotel in this chain thay I had stayed in recently and when I complained about the first one I had to refer this to the Fire Service because I was not convinced they took the matter seriously.
It may surprise some people that in order to find out what action the Fire Service took on this first hotel I had to serve a Freedom of Information Request on the Fire Service because they do not routinely inform you of what action they take on complaints.
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Ian Holland
Member - 7 posts
Fire Certificates included annotated building plans which showed essential fire safety information on escape routes, fire extinguishers and fire alarms. Fire Risk Assessments could include drawn information but to my experience few providers include for this. As the person responsible for Fire Risk Assessment my approach was to set up a portfolio of fire drawings and to make these available online to those undertiaking assessments, managers and building users. This encourages a common approach with regard to the key elements of fire safety which are concicely defined as General Fire Precautions Article 4 of the FSO.
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