Escape route in roof space

David Price
Member - 84 posts

NO NO NO, A crawl space? Who are you expecting to crawl through this space, as some contractors and employees are bigger than others, and if they become overcome by smoke or fumes then this route is rendered useless.

Contact your local fire officer, before you do anything else.

Iain Sanderson
Member - 39 posts

Totally agree with David. What you suggest would be a disaster. All escape routes should be the same height as, or following a risk assessment, as close to the height specified in the Building Regulations. However, Building Regulations should have taken care of the travel distance problem. Other ways of dealing with the travel distance issue, so long as it is not horrendously excessive and the risk of fire occuring and quickly spreading is low, would to be consider means of giving early warning. Crawl space are definitely not an acceptable solution.

Alan Cox - First for Fire & Safety
Online advisor - 56 posts

Andy,

The answer should be in your Fire Risk Assessment that should have been completed for the building - have you looked at this document yet? The escape route from the area that you are outlining may have been provided by other means eg protected route, additional fire protection etc.
It is always very difficult to give black and white answers to these types of questions without knowing all of the facts and circumstances and whilst generally crawl spaces would not be acceptable I have seen situations where they have been accepted by the enforcing authorities because there was simply no other alternative.

Andy Jackson
Member - 3 posts

Thank you for your comments. Please note that not for one moment did I think that a crawl space would be acceptable! This is a new building, not yet opened, and not yet Fire Risk Assessed. I have already said to the architects that we cannot accept a crawl space. I believe that it is possible to create an alternative exit, by use of an escape hatch, and I can't imagine how the architect got the distances so wrong in the first place. However, I would like to be able to quote something at them.

Mike Kane
Member - 26 posts

The Building Regulations ADB 2006 apply in all cases of new build

Plans should have been deposited with the Local Authority Building Control Department who should then have required the Fire Authority in the area where the buiding is located to inspect and comment in writing on those plans before the project was commenced

The means of escape provision is one aspect of the project to be checked by the Fire Authority and commented on in writing if they consider that the Requirement for adequate means of escape was not met

We would advise that you go straight to the Fire Authority and question what has been said and done with regard to this this project.

Good luck !

Mike Kane
fireuk@msn.com

Alan Cox - First for Fire & Safety
Online advisor - 56 posts

Andy,
Could you provide some additional information:
1. Why does the area require a crawl space for an escape route - is it not possible to provide other measures eg protectected route or additional detection?
2. What are the dimensions of the crawl space?
3. Who is the escape route for?
4. Who designed and approved the crawl space?

Andy Jackson
Member - 3 posts

Hi Alan,
thank you for your reply, and my sincere apologies for not answering sooner.
1) The area currently only has 1 escape route, which itself exits through a plant room, and the furthest point is approx 25m from that escape. I said that this was unacceptable as the travel distance was too long, and I wasn't happy with the only way out being through plant.
2) I believe the plan is to create a crawl space approx half the normal height of a door, very slightly slimmer, though it has not been built yet.
3) The escape route is for engineers of maintenance personnel working in the roof space. I would guess that the maximum number of persons would ever be 3 or 4.
4) The architect designed the building to HTM, but seems to have ignored the roof space. Already I have ensured that there is extra compartmentation up there, from that originally decreed. His plan was to cut a hole in the fire wall from the roof space above the plant room to the next-nearest compartment with a vertical escape ladder.

Alan Cox - First for Fire & Safety
Online advisor - 56 posts

Hi Andy,
This is a very difficult question to give you a definitive answer to without seeing the plans and knowing a little more about the project but on the answers you have given me I would offer the following advice:

I assume that we are discussing a non Nucleus Hospital.

1. You state that you have ensured that there is extra compartmentation up there - what does this achieve and does the area have AFD in all areas?
2. As the Architect designed this space you should be asking him to supply a Fire Risk Assessment as he has a professional responsibility to design it correctly and in accordance with the HTM. The problem with you requiring additional work means that the architect could say that you had compromised his Fire Plan. In my experience this type of situation can cause problems particularly if it is over budget.
3. The fact that he is discussing the means of escape would indicate that he is unsure about the situation - have the Fire Service made any comments?
4. Are there dedicated walk ways in the roof space and is it a fire rated floor above the plant room - this would mean that a fire anywhere below the ceiling void could not enter the ceiling space.

Whilst this may appear a very simple question there are any number of possible solutions and I don't want to mislead you. If you want to email a plan of the area I may be able to help you further.

Alan (mail@alanfcox.co.uk)