Drinking at work

Gillian Nightingale
Member - 175 posts

Hello Julie

You should consider 2 statutes relevant to the use of alcohol at work in such circumstances. These are:

1. The Road Traffic Act 1988

An offence is committed if a person drives or attempts to drive a vehicle on a road or other public place while unfit to do so. An employer would be vicariously liable for damage/injury caused by their employee if the employee was driving in the course of their duties.

2. The Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (and the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999)

All employers are under a statutory duty to ensure, so far as is practicable, the health, safety and welfare of their employees. An employer who allows someone to continue working in the knowledge that they are unfit could be in breach of their duty of care by putting that employee or others at risk

You might also like to look at the Workplace Law Network Guide on Alcohol, at http://www.workplacelaw.net/display.php?resource_id=364&keywords=drinking

Claire Edwards
Member - 1 post

We provide beer in our fridge for after hours working?? should we not do this??

Phill S
Member - 69 posts

I think that no company should endorse the use of alcohol, just to 'be on the safe side'.

And to be honest why should a company allow the use of alcoholic drinks? I can't think of any reason why alcoholic drinks should be provided in a workplace, not even in a bar.

I've heard arguments that bar work is often so strenuous that a 'wee dram' helps, but that kind of reasoning escapes logic, being a driver of a vehicle is strenuous, but would that wee dram be acceptable there?

If someone needs a drink to quench a thirst, then alcohol doesn't work, so have a soft drink instead.

James Fairchild
Member - 336 posts

You should try working in an accountancy practice/legal practice. Even today, bottles of champagne are kept on site for any inpromptu celebrations.

Trying to tell staff they can't drink at all whilst working is just a little too much like the nanny state for my liking.

I agree that excessive drinking is a problem (I'm thinking the resultant issues of someone either amourous, or about to get behind the wheel) but a little social drink can often be necessary to get a business deal through.

Real world chaps?

Kevin Brown
Member - 110 posts

You mean people actually celebrate doing their jobs properly? Get real James.
Real breath test, real conviction, real unemployment. (It's OK officer, I'm an accountant).

Julian Roberts
Member - 1 post

I agree with Kevin. It is a rediculous arguement to try and say that "it is just what we do". You need to progress your business into modern times and understand that our culture has changed and this is no longer acceptable behaviour.

Phill S
Member - 69 posts

It always amuses me that people are prepared to give a mind altering substance such credence, and fully condone the use of it.
Yet a different mind altering substance is considered evil.

Don't get me wrong, I sometimes drink alcohol, and never take illegal drugs, but the arguments for their use are often, well ... silly.

I get what James is saying, communicating the fact to others is sometimes nearly impossible, yet I also disagree with him over the use of mind altering substances at work, whether legal or not.

To "get real" I would need to accept that the alcohol industry is a huge business, and we will have alcohol and its many many associated problems for many many years, but personally, I still do not agree with its use at work.

Mark Shuttleworth
Member - 57 posts

A drink in the office is acceptable, drinking in the office is not. I agree with James. I don't hold with parties being held in the office at all but securing a major business deal or when making a retirement or long service presentation a small glass of wine or fizz makes the occasion a little special for most.

Sharing a glass of champagne on the successful completion, or the securing of, a major contract isn't celebrating someone doing their job properly it's celebrating someone doing their job well and we don't do enough of that in this country as it is.

But - that is as far as it should go, besides most parties then tend to set off for the nearest pub. I wouldn't say 'get real' but in proportion and under the scrutiny of your bosses and peers you'd be a fool to get leathered in the office.

Tony Williams
Member - 31 posts

This is really a question of judgement. There are many sound arguments against mixing alcohol and work, and very few arguments for it. People are usually disinhibited after drinking, and frequently say and do things they not only subsequently regret, but that could land their employer in trouble if comments are sexist, racist, ageist or in breach of any other regulations.

Don't forget that many people don't drink alcohol, and many drinkers won't drink alcohol at work or before driving. There should be no pressure put on staff to 'join in' when celebrating and you should always offer a suitable alternative non-alcoholic drink.

Mark Shuttleworth
Member - 57 posts

What about those staff who go to the pub at lunchtime and then come back to work having had just one drink? These are the areas where drinking is dangerous and company policy must be clear.

It depends on the individual company as to what is documented in their policy, but every company should have one. I wouldn't send Sally from accounts home for having had a half of lager with her pub lunch to celebrate her birthday but equally i wouldn't let Bob operate his lathe having joined her for a pint himself. Problem is, how do you know they only had one each unless you monitor every single person every single day?

I really don't care if drinking is banned in all workplaces but i don't think it needs to get that far if common sense and a little supervision is applied. It's the out of work drinking that's the worry.

Gemma Birch
Member - 7 posts

I do not think ANY drinking at work is acceptable at all. Whether you have clenched a big profile business deal or its a festive time of year etc. By having even a small glass of 'bubbly' you are putting other peoples and your own lives at risk. I think it is a very selfish thing to do and I think it makes it even worse that you are openly admitting to drinking and then driving home!!
The only sensible thing regarding this is DO NOT DRINK AND DRIVE. If it is your Birthday wait till you get home and drink and then get a taxi to wherever you are going or coming from. The regualatons say certain units but zero alcohol is much better. You are not super heroes! Who is to say a dribble of bubbly wont cause that driver to kill someone- we are all different chemically so there is just no excuse at all!
Thousands of lives arer wrecked every day by those selfish people who think that they are above the law. You dont have die after being in a car crash. I think any of you who touch a drop of drink should rethink your actions. It might help you to get this to sink in if you take into account people such as Jacqueline Saburido who was hit by someone like you and who has had to rebuild her life, constantly in pain. How selfish can you be??

janet burton
Member - 84 posts

Occasional celebrations are essential. They are part of life and work, act as a boost, and cheer everyone up.
I quite agree about not drinking and driving etc etc, but in the City many people use public transport to get to and from work, so that does not always come into it.
The real point is celebrate - that does not need alcohol unless you want alcohol. Always provide alternatives (it may seem obvious, but I've attended several celebrations where this was not done - I have complained about it on the basis of discrimination) and never urge people to drink alcohol. 'One little one' can and does hurt a lot of people - recovering alcoholics, people taking medication, people whose religion bans alcohol.
So as always, it is diversity and moderation are the rule of the day.

Gemma Birch
Member - 7 posts

I have not disagreed with celebrating but if someone is going to be driving then I believe that a zero tolerance on drinking should be taken. If I had paid a business to carry out work for me and I found out that they were celebarting a case etc in work time I would not be impressed at all and would wonder if they were capable of doing their job after.
Has it come to the point that to celebrate we HAVE to drink? Can humans not celebrate without having alcohol?It is as simple at that there is no grey area. If a a member of my family was hurt AT ALL and the one responsible had drunk just even a small glass of wine I would still come down on them like a ton of bricks. Their celebration could be lethal. If you want to drive drink soft drinks. If you want to drink take a taxi.

Technology will soon no doubt come up with a way to keep those selfish people who have had a drink be stopped from driving as clearly responsibility to do this themselves is far too hard.

Louise Richardson-Wyatt
Member - 1 post

I am 100% against drink driving and think it's a terribly selfish and irresponsible act. However, when it comes to having a drink during work hours, if you're not driving a car/operating machinery, and your performance isn't suffering at all, then why on earth not?! I personally do not drink during work hours as it makes me feel quite tired, but know plenty of people in successful careers who do. Do you not think we have enough stress nowadays to allow us a bit of let up if we need it (responsibly of course) or do we need people who think they're important and full of textbook comments breathing down our necks?! By the way - Gemma, I bet you're an absolute pleasure to work with...

James Fairchild
Member - 336 posts

Wow - lots of comments both ways!

At least we are all against drinking and driving.

Phill S
Member - 69 posts

I agree James, a good discussion.

Interesting comment Louise, you are 100% against drink driving, yet don't mind employees drinking.

So, I take it you approve of segregation?

Like I said before, I understand why it happens, but I don't agree with it in general.

And the more that people are willing to accept this practice as the norm, the more it will become the norm.

Gemma Birch
Member - 7 posts

In my comments I have not attakced anyone personally- that is not what the forums are for. I state again that I have not said celebrations should be stopped I just wish people would not drink and drive (as James stated at least we are all in agreeance on this one).
However, it is such a shame I have had sarcastic comment made about me as to what I am like to work with- very unproffessional I must say!

Ian Walford
Member - 24 posts

Beer in the fridge for after hours working? Tired and drunk staff roaming a building? Get ready for a couple of days in court if there's an accident.

Peter Daws
Member - 11 posts

There is nothing worse than having to listen and put up with a colleague - senior or junior membe of staff - who has had a drink and who then attempts to impose their muddled requirements, thoughts, wishes etc on everyone else around.

William Love
Member - 5 posts

Alcohol being consumed with in the premises during normal work hours or indeed after 'normal' working hours, has your rsik assessor compiled the paperwork, is your fire assessment addressing this issue and is your fire insurance carrier aware of the actvity. As Ian rightly states the risk of appearing in court if someone who under the influence of alcohol is injured or is unable to escape a fire or even starts a fire the consequences are unthinkable... celebrations or wind downs from a hard day at work should be kept in a pub or club not on work premises. Its a foolhardy practice.

Mark Shuttleworth
Member - 57 posts

Gemma hi, you sound like this might be something that has touched you personally, I sincerely hope not and my heart goes out to anyone who has suffered due to the actions of a drunken driver.

Unfortunately people who choose to drink and drive would do it whether they they are at work or not. It does sound as if you expect everyone who has an alcoholic drink to get totally blotto'd and then tries to drive. Lets not assume everyone drinks to get drunk shall we, or that everyone who drinks, drives.
Personally I agree with you and think that the law should change; if driving a car then zero alcohol should be the legal limit.

Although the two are connected lets not confuse the question we are discussing 'should drinking be allowed at work'. Drinking and driving is a different question and one that clearly wouldn't have such a detailed response as this one!

Gemma Birch
Member - 7 posts

Fortunately I havent had anything that has touched me personally. I suppose I just feel very strongly about the issue and just wish that people would think of others more and act responsibly.
I am aware that this debate is about 'drinking at work' but surely the two are linked.
I cannot believe that everyone who has a drink at work then gets a taxi, bus or train home. In response to you Mark I do not believe that everyone who drinks get absolutely wrecked but I do beleive that even if you have one drink then drive you are still putting others and yourself at risk. (Please take the time to read up about the cases that show the results)
Clearly there are many who believe that doing your job well deserves a drink. I am glad that not every workplace feels that.
I am also glad that everyone agrees that drink driving should be banned but surely that would mean banning drinking in the work for anyone who does not walk, use a train, bus, taxi or get a lift? They are intrinsically linked.
I still belive that if anyone caused an accident after an 'office celebration' and wrecked someone's life they would wish they hadnt touched even a drop.

Anne McAllister
Member - 165 posts

The original poster indicated that drinking is acceptable at evening events but not during the day.
Im assuming the evening events are "social" events and would think that this is perfectly acceptable given that moderation is exercised.

Mark said...."Lets not assume everyone drinks to get drunk shall we, or that everyone who drinks, drives."
Its a matter of personal choice and as a non drinker see no reason why alcohol should be completely banned,depending on the work being undertaken and of course H&S being addressed.
Personally Id rather have a lovely cream bun !

Julie Burnell
Member - 10 posts

to respond to your posting, they were drinking of an evening during breaks but outside of the breaks they were responsible for the safety of the public and evacuation. This posting is several years old and we now no longer allow this to happen.