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tony merrick
Member - 5 posts
Hi I was wondering if anyone could help me...
I run a small door security firm. Between 14 -18 Different door supervisors cover shifts for me and wish to do so as self employed individuals offering their services. Every week my clients inform me what days/hours they require doorstaff. I then ask the door supervisors if they would be happy to cover the shifts.
Half the time, the boys who worked the previous weekend may not be available due to other work offered, girlfriends/wives/children commitments or just wish to go on nights out etc.
There is no mutual obligation for them to work on my behalf or for me to offer them work. In fact this would be impossible as some of the venues do not always require staff.
I have an appointment with the HMRC as they wish to make me change my relationship with them to employer and put them on PAYE. Can they force me to do this?
I have been looking through some case law on the HMRC site and have found some precedents stating that to prove that I am an employer then mutual obligation must be proved. Has anyone got any experience in this and could give me some advice please?
By the way, the main reason I do not wish to go PAYE is that most of my best doormen will probably look for work with firms elsewhere or just quit as they do not want to lose their sefl employed status and are only doing the odd saturday night here and there.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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James Fairchild
Member - 336 posts
Tony,
On the basis of what you have said, I would be inclined to agree with you. As you say, Mutuality is crucial.
Two links for you: http://www.taxationweb.co.uk/forum post a question there, those folks will give you advice from a tax perspective
http://www.cpdwebinars.com/details.php?id=25 - there is an online training seminar this coming Monday focussing on Employment Status. Whilst it does cost, this could well be money well spent for yourself.
What I will add is that employment status on its own is not necessarily conclusive for tax status, however as far as I know IR35 isn't relevant to door staff.
Obviously you'll need clear documentation, i.e. invoices etc, copies of cheque stubs if necessary, but I think you should be able to tell HMRC to be quiet.
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tony merrick
Member - 5 posts
Hi James thanks for your advice, I will let you know how it goes
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Chris Hannam
Member - 1 post
So if these people go self-employed who provides their Public Liability Insurance as the no longer have Employers Liability cover? They certainly need it!
The job of a Door Supervisor means they do not operate at there own premises, do not supply there own tools or materials, are told they hours they are experted to work when on duty, report to and work under another companies policy and conditions and most important of all do not take any kind of business risk as they work for a daily, hourly or weekly rate and do not quote for the work that may be on offer. All these are indicators of employment and not self employment.
Check out the IR 56 Tax Regulations.
Chris Hannam.
Stagesafe
H&S Consultants and Training Services to the Live Music and Events Industry
www.stagesafe.co.uk
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