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Dale M. Curtis CMIOSH MIIRSM
Member - 5 posts
What is happening in the world of work?
Although I have the greatest sympathy with Mr Gower-Smith and his family I feel as much empathy with the employer.
I am the SHE Manager for a national maintenance company. Yes, all of our operatives use stepladders for the majority of elevated maintenance work as this has been assessed as the most suitable equipment for the majority of tasks. All our operatives receive training in risk assessment and working at height. All of our electricians and a/c engineers have been trained and have experience of using stepladders for a number of years as part of what they do. Combined with their own competencies and the training we deliver we feel we cannot do much more than keep reminding them with toolbox talks. However, we have to come to a point where we cannot supervise all operatives at all times and must rely on an individual's own responsibility for safeguarding their own safety at work.
It appears that no matter what an employer does they are still guilty in the event of an accident with very little onus on an individual for the actions they decide to take.
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David Price
Member - 84 posts
Dale, with reference to the last 2 lines of your comment : It appears that no matter what an employer does they are still guilty in the event of an accident with very little onus on an individual for the actions they decide to take.
This is not correct!
Too many company's these days always assume that staff have the right skills and compedencies to carry out any given task, which is simply no longer true.
It's a shame that Mr Gower Smith's employers just left him in affect to get on with it. Where were the risk assessments & method statements for his job in relation to ladder use, companys always think that because they gave someone a course 10 years ago doest mean that they will remember it or that things haven't changed.
A common mistake is for people to confuse what they can do at work with what they can do at home, the difference being that one (work) is covered by HSE legislation and the other isn't.
Indeviduals are failable and will take risks at times to get the job done, for whatever reason. 9 times out of 10 they will get away with it, it only takes that 1 time for it all too come crashing down around their ears.
I stll see engineers standing on Bins, chairs, pallets etc because they can't be bothered to walk back to their van to get a ladder. Yes this is foolish, yes this is dangerous, but it still goes on. Companys do have a responcibilty to ensure that staff are made aware of these things and told that despite it being obvious to the rest of us that they should under no circumstances use anything other than a ladder.
But most company's don't have the time to check on their staff as I'm sure you don't, and you are not there standing behind them when they are about to commit an act that goes against everything they have been told not to do. But words are not enough these days, as people can forget. If you have carried out a risk assessment for the task, and provided a Method statement to the worker concerned, then the risk of an accident is greatly reduced, but never iliminated. As you say "we cannot supervise all operatives at all times and must rely on an individual's own responsibility for safeguarding their own safety at work."
This is true, but if you can prove to the HSE that you have taken every possible precaution and the accident still happened, then you have either overlooked something or it will then rest with the compendence and skill level of the opperative carring out the task, and his or her ability to understand the training and instructions they they have been given, which will reduce any claim as the result of an accident.
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Dale M. Curtis CMIOSH MIIRSM
Member - 5 posts
Thank you for your comments David. Although you start off by appearing to disagree with my comments you end up agreeing with them! You seem to say that if there is an accident the employer will still be claimed against but at a reduced rate. We are talking about civil matters and not criminal.
In so many instances, it is usually a civil case brought to the courts by 'no win - no fee' solicitors and not the HSE who are usually quite practical in their approach to employers.
Employers are usually willing to pay out, as they are insured, rather than use more resources up fighting these civil claims.
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Stephen Martin
Member - 12 posts
Whatever happened to the old addage of being responsible for our own actions? We are all given free will and common sense, so why don't we use these two facets of human nature instead of trying to blame someone else for our fallings?
The extreme extension of all this SHEF training is that we will all be so busy doing safety courses there will be no time for doing the actual work for which we expect to get paid.
Taking responsibility, and accepting it, is not draconian; it is a duty and simply requires the application of common sense, awareness, competence, experience and, yes, professionalism. Why is that so difficult?
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David Price
Member - 84 posts
Dale, We are now in a claim culture, where if there is extra money to be had at little cost to the indevidual then I'm sorry to say that these days most people will take it.
The no win no fee companys rely on peoples greed, and seeing some of the figures that get paid out these days I'm not surprised they do decide to claim.
However some people claim to teach their company a lesson, for not looking after them the way that they should have done.
Where will it all end I seriously don't know, what I do know is that as long as cases like falling off a ladder, slipping on a wet floor, tripping up a pavement, and many others are seen to be the way to a quick buck then there will always be a chance that no matter how safe we think we have made our environment, someone else will always say that we could have done more.
I think that employees should be made to take out insurance when they start work, to cover themselves in the event of an accident, and for them to compensate the company if it is found to be their own fault, and if they don't have any accidents then a lump sum should be given to them when they leave.
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