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Kevin Brown
Member - 92 posts
Some time ago, under the auspices of DDA 1995, two sets of fire doors at either end of a short corridor leading from a main staircase to our customer reception area were 'upgraded'. This took the form of installing electrically operated door controllers activated, on the approach from the stairs, by PIR detectors. From the inside they are operated by large pushbuttons, opening outwards towards the stairwell.
I've expressed reservations about these doors, both in terms of the lack of visible and audible signals when in operation and also from the point of view of fire safety. I'm prepared to accept that being struck by a low energy door is unlikely to result in injury, but I'm really concerned about how this transformation has affected their value as fire doors. They isolate the public and office areas from the main staircase or at least (IMHO) they should. Instead, the PIR detectors pick up any movement up or down stairs, or within the corridor itself and the doors open as they were designed to do with monotonous regularity.
If the power to the doors is interrupted they stay in whatever position they came to rest, there are no mechanical means of closing the doors.
I've been told that they are definitely classed as low energy doors which comply fully with BS7036, and that my concerns about fire safety are groundless. My reading of Part M of the Building Regs , and my gut feeling about fire doors that don't fail 'safe' leave me unconvinced. Can anyone advise
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Peter Grundy
Member - 5 posts
Quote: "If the power to the doors is interrupted they stay in whatever position they came to rest, there are no mechanical means of closing the doors. "
This worries me greatly. I am not an expert on the RRFSO but If firedoors are to be installed then they should work as designed i.e. to prevent the spread of smoke, heat and fire whilst allowing persons to escape.
What would happen if there was a power cut during a fire? (a distinct possibility) There is a risk of the firedoors 'sticking' in the open position.
One thing you did not make clear, can they be physically pushed open in the event of a power failure? I would hate to read of people trapped by an unopenable firedoor!
I suggest you have a word with your local fire service who, after all, are the enforcing authority.
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Graham Martin
Member - 2 posts
Hi Kevin
I deal with Auto Doors in the Hospital I work. The Doors should be fitted with sensors so that traffic passing through dont get hit by the doors - the sensors are fitted to the inside & the outside of each door leaf. If the doors are deemed compartment doors they will have to be de-activated by the fire alarm system - only if the fire zone/compartment they are in has been activated.
Graham
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Alan Cox - First for Fire & Safety
Online advisor - 53 posts
Kevin,
If I have understood the situation correctly in order to comply with DDA requirements you have fitted two fire doors with both a push buttons and PIR detectors to allow people easy access from a staircase to the reception. Presumably, when they were originally installed as fire doors they had positive self closing devices fitted.
If we go back to basics staircases provide a very good route for fire to spread from one floor to another and that is generally why fire doors are provided to stop this happening and to let people escape to a place of safety. Obviously, they will only work in a fire situation if they are closed and from your explanation it appears that they may not - in a fire situation isn't there a chance that the PIR may react to the fire situation and open the doors thus defeating everything that you are trying to achieve?
Before any alterations were put in place the Fire Risk Assessment should have been examined to consider what impact that these alterations may have had - did this happen? There are also many other ways of making fire doors accessible without going to these lengths and which will also meet fire requirements. I always adise carrying out a Door Access Survey to look at the different requirements and solutions before any action is taken.
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Kevin Brown
Member - 92 posts
Thanks Alan
It's reassuring to know I'm not just a lone voice crying out in the wilderness. I'm actually the fire risk assessor but senior managers decided DDA compliance was too sensitive for 'junior' management to get involved, hence my frustration over this issue. Instead of trusting my competence and training they'd rather listen to reassuring noises from the FMP.
The view from the top table seems to be that I'm there to advise and assess, but ignored whenever convenient. (The same top table are currently in the process of canvassing me and my colleagues about attending FRA refresher courses. I love consistency).
Having had little success in discharging my professional duties to my employer I may have to consider re-addressing the issue as the appointed TU Safety Rep.
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Alan Cox - First for Fire & Safety
Online advisor - 53 posts
Kevin,
Very many people are in the same situation as yourself and I know what it's like as I was in the same position when I was employed by a large financial institution some years ago. What I always advise people like yourself to do is to make sure that you have put your concerns very plainly in writing to the named person in the organisation who is responsible for fire & safety and that you keep a copy at home for your own safety and credibility. One of the other things that you can do is to have a discreet word to the Fire Officer and ask his advise - he may then suggest a surprise inspection without naming anyone.
If you are also the apponted TU Safety Rep you also have a lot of power and protection to get things done but of course there are risks with this is I'm sure you are aware.
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C M
Member - 6 posts
The area in which I am in control of in my work place is a former office area in the upper area of a large 1970s built warehouse. The floor has been disused since 1994, and through several owners of the warehouse has been disused. Recently, we decided to convert the area for use as storage of light goods and quality control for an independent customer.
There are two large internal staircases, and two external fire escape staircases. The doors into the internal stairs had electromagnetic "closers" on them, triggered when the fire alarms were activated. However, the fire alarms in this area have been disabled due to a newer system being installed downstairs, and because the upstairs area was disused at the time, the system on that floor was not upgraded. The doors no longer self close, or remain closed at any time. The internal fire spread prevention doors no longer have mechanical "closers" fitted, and do not self close.
Also specified was a large opening in one of the fire check walls to assist with movement of goods, a steel roller shutter has been fitted to this, however the employees and myself have deemed this too heavy to open and close regularly, because there are no handles fitted for ease of lifting, it replaced a set of self closing fire doors. The result of this is that the steel shutter remains open from Monday morning until Friday evening.
There are also no fire extinguishers on this floor, the fire reels are switched off at the mains and are inoperable, because several have been removed and the pipes severed and left uncapped or sealed. If the water is switched back on, it would simply flow straight out of the pipes. The sprinkler system accross the whole building is also disabled, due to contents insurance not covering the automotive components stored there for water damage.
Although I am not an appointed fire marshall, I am responsible for this area and I do not wish to be held responsible for any fire spreading on my department.
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C M
Member - 6 posts
Apologies, I left out the main reason for my post, can anyone assist me on what to report to my manager as a supervisor of two staff, regarding the fire hazard that is the entire first floor? I am not responsible for budgeting or authorizing any upgrades to the building.
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Alan Cox - First for Fire & Safety
Online advisor - 53 posts
CM,
From your account it would appear that you are working in a very unsafe situation and that you are in need of urgent professional advice. Do you know if a Fire Risk Assessment has been carried out and have you seen it? It should highlight all of the items that you refer to - have a word with your Manager and if you think that he is not taking your concerns seriously put it in writing and consider my previous advice.
Remember that working on upper floors is obviously more dangerous than working on the ground floor of a building because your safety is controled by what happens on the floors below you. You need unobstruced and fire protected stairways down to ground floor and a clear escape route to an area of ultimate safety.
I hope that helps but if you wish any further help please do not hesitate to ask.
Alan
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C M
Member - 6 posts
Thanks, Alan.
I've drafted a full list of all the items that need to be dealt with, and my immediate manager will be on site on Monday. Another concern of mine was emergency lighting, which the company electrician informed me are disabled with the fire alarms.
As far as I am aware the properties department have not authorized an FRA on that area, and I was involved in the entire development of the project to convert the floor. I doubt that it would be deemed safe to use. For two months of this floor being used the fire escape door opened onto a 40ft drop to the car park, being as the escape stairs were removed some years back. They have now been replaced, but the bar on the door is difficult to operate and sometimes requires a kick in the correct place to get the door open.
I will be speaking with my superiors to see what they are prepared to do. Does anyone know if there is any way of whistle blowing to the relevant authorities? I'd be prepared to do it if it got us a safe place to work.
CM
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