Asbestos link to office worker's death

Tony Carter
Member - 4 posts

I work in the legal side of industrial disease particularly asbestos related issues, and we sue many councils and local authorities for exposing their workforce to asbestos. If they dig deep enough the evidence is there, the trouble is that the latent period for an asbestos (as you are no doubt aware) illness to develop can sometimes be up to 50 years.

Local authorities are amongst some of the worst offenders

KENNETH JENKINS
Member - 9 posts

I agree Tony however a more realistic time from exposure is 20 to 30 years and in the past it is widely accepted that there have been very few successful cases against councilsin these matters.
Sorry to harp on about the lack of duty to care by to many employers who are still not complying to laws that came into force in 2004.
When are we going to see a big TV and Radio campaign about asbestos?Lets educate these people so there is no excuse in the future.

Ken Jenkins P402 Surveyor

Philip Jeffs
Member - 300 posts

I agree with you Ken, there was so much hype over the 2004 and 2006 acts but in reality there is no enforcement at all. I rarely get any work unless someone feels pressured into it by their insurers or bank. In fact its amazing how many commercial property lawyers don't even ask for an asbestos register as part of the leasing/sale process!

In this particular case I'd be finding out who the contractors and suppliers to the Council were at that time, and if still trading asking them if any workers suffered the same issue. If there was so much Amosite dust in the air it cannot just have affected one person?

That said, the judgement was that it was'likely' to have been caused at work - who is going to accept without a legal fight? expect an appeal by the Council anytime soon!

Philip Jeffs
Member - 300 posts

Oh, should have similarly signed off:

Phil Jeffs P402 Surveyor.

Alex Gordon
Member - 23 posts

Interesting discussion but one serious area of concern is the exposure of school children to asbestos fibres in local authority schools.
As they will not show symptoms for 30 years or more it will be difficult to track the cases back, particularly as the data is collected with respect to occupational exposure. I have never seen any figures for pupils who went on to contract the disease.

KENNETH JENKINS
Member - 9 posts

I totally agree with you Phil and Alex it is a very justified point regarding school children.
I have just completed the asbestos survey on a large school in central London where above a suspended ceiling has a complete AIB ceiling that was broken into for the supports of the suspended ceiling leaving broken exposed edges around the holes.
We have recommended full removal and an industrisl clean however we can only guess at the exposure levels and debrigh on top of the new tiles.
This is just one of many incidents.

Ken Jenkins P402 Surveyor

Tony Carter
Member - 4 posts

Interesting observations guys. Kenneth I agree that a 20 - 30 year latent period is quite common, but in most cases many people suffer for a number of years with the symptoms but are reluctant to get a diagnosis because they feel it is just a symptom of getting old. On the plus side it means that their date of knowledge is later which helps with the statute of limitation.

Mesothelioma is becoming a real problem and we probably get 20 new cases a week, sometimes in people in their 40's and often from secondary exposure, and I certainly feel that people who were in school in the 60's and 70's will be the next batch of victims not only because of things such as lagging, but also because asbestos was used in science lessons and the like giving quite substantial exposure.

We took part in a TV campaign a few months ago in the Midlands about the exposure to asbestos and the number of people who came forward who were none the wiser as to the risks or the unlikely places they could have been exposed.

I think you are right that a major asbestos awareness campaign is required particularly if the Pleural Plaques situation is resolved at the High Court later in the year.

KENNETH JENKINS
Member - 9 posts

Thanks Tony your comments are very interesting and very true.
I can remember in school using asbestos products but worse for me is that l took an apprenticeship when l left school at 15 in the plumbing and heating industry and was one of the people who lagged pipes with blue and brown asbestos mix, l hope to be one of the lucky ones at now 56 who has avoided any form of asbestosis.
I can understand how in those days peoiple were unaware but there is no excuse now, it is the governments responsibility to ensure the public are aware of the risks faced today.

Ken Jenkins P402 Surveyor

Philip Jeffs
Member - 300 posts

The point is though Ken 9and you of course know this), you are one of thousands of people who worked in industries that regularly used asbestos before the full risks were known or regulated against. The products manufactured, and the building processes that used ACM, meant literally thousands and thousands of properties contained some form of asbestos. They still do.

So, to tackle the problem the government bought out regulations that, in essence, say that if you have a quick look round and don't see anything you (as an untrained person) think is asbestos, you can write up a 'zero register' and sit back and relax because the requirement for documentation under the regs is covered. That doesn't mean the premises is free of asbestos, merely that if (fat chance...) the enforcement authorities should ask to see the register you have one, and you don't have a management plan because (in your view) there is nothing to manage. Its all to be seen to be doing something rather than actually addressing the problem, and the commercial property solicitors and insurers will accept that register on face value and pas it on to the next tenant/owner who then picks up a lot of trouble.

Wait until the old railway and warehousing complexes are pulled down in east London for the development of the site for the 2012 olympics, and lets see what is reported as having been found....? Will it be a major problem (as P402 surveyors would expect) or will it be a case that someone reports no ACM found? Watch this space....

Tony Carter
Member - 4 posts

What I always find amusing (Which is not amusing to the sufferer I hasten to add)is that the Government always state that back in the 50' and 60's people particularly businesses were not aware of the dangers of asbestos, and yet the first Mesothelioma case was recorded back in 1895.

Business owners knew of the dangers, but were of the opinion that by the time symptoms started to develop they themselves would either be dead or the company would cease to exist so it would not affect them.

What makes life difficult from our point of view is that employer liability insurance was not compulsory until 1972 and companies house only keep records for 20 years after a company was dissolved.

Makes for an interesting working life!!!!